235. Suzi Green, Tour Manager & Founder Of The BACK LOUNGE

In Episode 235, the hosts are joined by Suzi Green, tour manager and founder of The BACK LOUNGE, a peer support group for the live music industry. She talks about her journey out of and back into the music world with a new mission to help make it a better place, creating healthier work environments, mental health first aid, and more. This episode is sponsored by Allen & Heath and RCF.

Episode Links:
THE BACK LOUNGE On Facebook & Instagram
Healthy Touring Resources
Touring and Mental Health: The Music Industry Manual, Edited by Tamsin Embleton
Mental Health First Aid Training: U.S. — Canada — UK
Signal to Noise Discord — Mental Health Channel
Transcript

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Transcript

Episode 235 - Suzi Green

Note: This is an automatically generated transcript, so there might be mistakes--if you have any notes or feedback on it, please send them to us at signal2noise@prosoundweb.com so we can improve the transcripts for those who use them!

Voiceover: You’re listening to Signal to Noise, part of the ProSoundWeb podcast network, proudly brought to you this week by the following sponsors:

Allen & Heath, introducing their new CQ series, a trio of compact digital mixers for musicians, bands, audio engineers, home producers, small venues, and installers that puts ease of use and speed of setup at the heart of the user experience.

RCF, who has just unveiled their new TT+ Audio brand, including the high performance GTX series line arrays and the GTS29 subwoofer. Be sure to check it out at rcf-usa.com. That's rcf-usa.com.

Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green

Andy Leviss: Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Signal to Noise. I'm your host, Andy Leviss, and uh, in the next window in the virtual studio is my co host, Sean Walker. 

Sean Walker: What's up y'all? 

Andy Leviss: Hey, uh, so yeah, you know, we're hanging in there. How you been doing, Sean? 

Sean Walker: Busy as ever dude and thankful for it when you own your own company. You know what I mean? 

Andy Leviss: Right? Busy's good as long as you're not working yourself into the ground too much, uh 

Sean Walker: Ehhhhhhhhhh.... <laughs>

Andy Leviss: That's gonna...that's gonna come back. I feel like that's, that's gonna be super relevant with this week's episode. Uh, since it's early in the year and everybody's working on New Year's resolutions, um, it seemed the perfect time to get somebody I know I've been wanting to get on as a guest for a while. 

Uh, those of you who are on the Signal to Noise, uh, Facebook group may recognize her from her posts about, uh, weekly sessions. Uh, we've got Suzi Green of The Back Lounge. Welcome, Suzi! 

Suzi Green: Hi, nice to be here. Yeah, I guess the memes tend to attract attention more than anything!

Andy Leviss: I mean, it's really great. It's definitely got mine. I know by, I, there's been a bunch of sessions you've been running that I've wanted to pop in on and just schedule as it hasn't worked out. So I'm glad if nothing else we could do, we could drag you into coming to hang with us. Um, so why don't, why don't we start off just if you give us a little bit of what's your background and tell us about the back lounge and how that came to be. 

Suzi Green: Sure. Okay. So my day job, if you like, is I'm a tour manager. I've worked in the industry about, oh, too long. I'm prehistoric, good 25 years. Um, on and off, because I feel like I'm one of those people that have spent as much time trying to get out of touring as I have trying to get into touring, um, and one of, part of my history of being a tour manager is I, I definitely hit early in my career a point of burnout, um, was probably partying a bit too hard, um, didn't have a lot of boundaries, was saying yes to a lot of things, and realized, yeah, well realized, Like almost overnight, I was like, God, this thing that I love, that I want to be with, I'm starting to resent and hate. 

And I actually ended up leaving touring for almost 10 years and doing a bunch of other things and then kind of getting dragged back into it, um, a few years before the pandemic, which has been kind of touring in a very different way, in a much more kind of holistic, dare I say, healthy kind of way. And that's. 

Sean Walker: I don't know that those things go together. 

Suzi Green: you might think that, and I thought that too. I mean, what happened, actually, when I came off the road, I was so allergic, I think, to the live music industry and everything I felt like it represented for me. I retrained as a nutritionist. You know, I really went for it with, and for a long time while I was training, I was still doing a lot of festival work and repping work on shows, and then going off and training as a nutritionist, which took me four years, and I never thought the two. 

Um, and then when I qualified, I set up clinic, was seeing a lot of people who worked in entertainment actually with kind of unusual lifestyles, if you like, you know, which can encompass all kinds of things. Um, and then I got a phone call out of the blue back in 2015 by a manager who I haven't, hadn't actually seen for a few years, and he was looking for a tour manager for a particular artist he represented who had a history of, you know, quite high level of. 

Um, you know, high level of care needed, um, around some eating issues, um, and then bizarrely right there was a role for me that I hadn't even dreamt up myself, um, a kind of healthy tour manager who knew about nutrition and that's kind of where that path started. So I 

Sean Walker: That's awesome. 

Suzi Green: Yeah, bit, bit random, bit weird, uh, maybe a little bit more. 

normal now, if you like, post pandemic. But, so I went back out on the road, um, and then started kind of, uh, my USP was, yeah, healthier touring. A bit more mindful touring, if you like. You know, it doesn't have to be a battlefield. Then the pandemic hit, and like everyone else, um, My career, my livelihood, my identity to a lot of, uh, you know, extent kind of disappeared overnight. 

Um, and I also had COVID really early on. Um, you know, right before there was the list of symptoms of like, Hey, this is really strange. I can't smell this onion at all. You know, and, uh, Yeah, I had COVID, um, did an antibody test, um, a month later in April, which showed I had had it, um, and it left me very sort of washed up, depressed, um, isolated, didn't really want to talk to work colleagues, you know, who I tour with about how I was feeling, you know, blind panic. 

despair, um, looking at my neighbors over the garden fence who were like lying in the back garden, um, you know, semi retired or, you know, or somehow supported by the government financially to not worry about working. And as most of us are in this industry, uh, we're freelance, you know, no work, no money. Um, so that led me to actually, it's a friend of mine who's a school teacher who And I said, Oh, we're meeting up on this thing called Zoom, uh, where you can chat. 

Uh, and they were talking about as teachers, you know, what it meant, what this thing that was happening, what it meant to them and how they were going to teach. And I was thinking, God, I wonder if there's something like that for the music industry. And I couldn't find one. I was Googling and I found, you know, various things, you know, very worthy groups, lots of 12 step and therapy groups and things, but nothing that was just a bunch of people talking about their experiences and, you know, and, and having that understanding of what it's like working in live touring. 

Um, and then I found one in the U. S., Backline Care, were running calls and they're an amazing organization. Um, so I was the lone Brit, staying up till one in the morning, listening in on their calls and it kind of blew me away listening to say someone in Chicago and someone in New York talking about their fears and their worries, you know, around COVID and will they ever work again and thinking, God, I could have said all those things. 

So I zoomed with them for a month or so and thought, well, we need something like this, this side of the pond. So I started one, and that was three and a half years ago. And now we're quite a big group of people. So I feel like I've taken a, I've taken a long time to answer that question. I'll let you speak now. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, all good. So, and has it been pretty much weekly since then for three and a half years or has the frequency ramped up over time or? 

Suzi Green: So, it's mostly weekly. Sometimes we run a few extra ones. Sometimes we miss the odd one. Um, I run it voluntarily whilst touring. Um, and we have a group of people who, you know, we, once the pandemic was over and we started going back to work, we realized what a valuable resource this was and how much it was really supporting people, you know, right from when we weren't working. 

So then that huge fear of going back to work and almost like performance anxiety, you know, even never mind if you're on stage, but. You know, if you're a front house engineer and your first gig is, I mean, here in the UK, for most people, their first gigs were straight into big festivals and they hadn't done anything for 18 months. 

And suddenly they're behind a desk with 10, 000 people in front of them having to, you know, do the job. Um, so we kept going through that and then it's very much grown into a kind of community. of people who are just looking to try and do things a bit better. I always think touring is, it's still a little bit stuck in the 1970s in some ways, you know. 

We're rebels, we're rock and roll, we, you know, we don't want to talk about our feelings and, you know, like, hey, how much beer did you drink last night? And, wow, you only had two hours sleep? And, you know, that's still kind of applauded. And I think there's a different way of doing things. And I know from talking to a lot of other people that, you know, there, there is a lot more awareness now around if you want longevity, you know, in this industry, whether you're on stage or behind it, then at some point you're going to have to start looking after yourself. 

You know, it's physically and mentally, definitely. 

Sean Walker: Totally, and I, you know, I would, I have less touring experience than other people because I've got a wife and kids and I don't like being gone from them that long, so I've only been out for a few times for you know, some, what people would consider to be short runs but, I've, Talking to some other friends of mine, not all the camps are the same, right? 

Each artist or each camp has a very different mentality or, you know, vibe or whatever. And it sounds to me like a lot of the ones that hang on to that, like you would say, old school mentality are having trouble getting great texts now because people don't want to deal with that anymore. You know what I mean? 

They're kind of like, yeah, that was cool, but it's a little more of a job now and a little less of just, Drug, Sex and Rock and Roll on the road. And, uh, I would think that it's almost going to like force itself to change cause they're just not going to have anybody that wants to go to work. Are you finding something similar or am I just talking out of left field? 

Suzi Green: No, you're, you're bang on, I'd say. Um, there is still, you know, that contingent, the party contingent for sure. Um, I think, I would say the music industry in, in live anyway, is having to grow up. We're having to be much more professional. 

Sean Walker: Which some of that's cool, but some of that's not because who doesn't love drug sex and rock and roll? You know what I mean? 

Suzi Green: yeah, but you see, where else Do you have a place of employment where, I mean, I always laugh about band riders. I always like, you know, if I'm taking on a new job, I try and get an idea of what kind of vibe is on this tour. And I'll look at the old riders and if it's like Jack Daniels and Haribo, you know, there'll be Jack Daniels and Haribo crew. 

And then there'll be the green juices and, you know, we need access to a swimming pool, you know, and that will all be on the same tour and everyone in between. And I think it's rare to find a group of people who are on the road. You know, for any length of time, who are all into doing one thing. There might, you know, more and more now, as we get a bit more diverse, there might be a couple of people who are sober, you know, or in 12 step. 

Uh, there might be a couple of health nuts and they want to go out running. Uh, there'll be the other people who, uh, you know, the ones whose beer cans you're tripping over as you, you walk down the gangway on the tour bus in the morning. You know, and that's what makes this Job, colourful, I guess. And I suppose what I advocate for is, you know, I'd never tell anyone you can't do this, you can't do that. 

It's more, I think there just has to be room for everybody. And before, it was like, to fit in, you had to keep up with the best of them. Um, and I just don't think that's so necessary anymore. I think it's more choice. 

Sean Walker: I did that through my whole twenties. I'll, I'll be the first to admit through my entire twenties, I was absolutely the keep up with the Jones's dude that was, You know, drinking and partying with the best of them. Cause I thought it was cool and man, I'm paying for it now. I feel like I aged 50 years in that 10 years. 

Suzi Green: Well, I mean, you know what? I relate to that. My 20s were predominantly that too. Um, you know, it's like time of my life, absolutely. But the thing is, I think when, um, when it starts becoming a problem, That's really hard. And I think if you work in this industry and whatever you want to, you know, deem as your problem, whether it's alcohol or gambling or sex addiction or whatever, it's Touring is a great place to hide because you kind of have, you're not that accountable. 

You quite often move touring families as you move through different jobs. Um, and again, you, you know, where else do you work? And you, you know, you have access to alcohol, you know, pretty much from when you get up. You know, so it's like if, if that's your, your struggle, it's, for some people, it means leaving the industry, you know, which is a talent drain. 

There's some great people who've left the industry because they felt it's been too much stigma and too hard to go into recovery and then be exposed on the roads to these kind of things. And that's what I think needs to change. You know, we want to keep these crew who are experienced and I also think anyone who's, you know, actually. 

got themselves into recovery and is attempting to stay in recovery. You know, they're some of the hardest working, bravest people, you know, you're ever going to meet. So, you know, we shouldn't be excluding people because of where they come from. 

Sean Walker: Totally. Totally. And it, you know, like for me, I won't speak for everybody. I can only speak for myself, but as I have gotten older, what I thought was cool has changed. My priorities have changed and now like getting drunk and getting late isn't the only priority you got like in your early 20s. Or at least I had my early twenties, right? 

As I'm in my forties with a family and stuff, it's not, it just doesn't seem fun anymore. You know what I mean? It's not like let's go see how trashed we can get. And if we can get away with life now, it's like, how are we going to do life better? I do our job better and do a better job for our clients. 

It's just a different, at least for me, it was a mentality switch. You know what I mean? And, uh, I don't, I don't find it hard to not, to not be drinking at work. That's pretty, pretty easy. I knocked that off a number of years ago. Uh, but I can totally see how it could be tricky for somebody who quit drinking, let's say, and, and is around that and trying to not, you know what I mean? 

That, that would be tricky. So finding the right camp or the right balance, the right people to hang out with, you know, kind of like you are who your friends are, so to speak, is. Is probably pretty important. Would you, would you think? Yeah. 

Suzi Green: Yeah, but you see, that's the thing. You don't always choose. who you are surrounded with. You know, you're away from home, you're away from your support networks, you're away from your friends, your family, you know. And I think Zoom is an amazing thing, you know, and a lot of the technology that's developed because of the pandemic. 

You know, a lot of people can get to meetings now, which, you know, prior to the pandemic, when, you know, something like 12 Step was always in person. You know, again, if you're a little bit ashamed about the fact that you have a history, you don't want to tell people, you're worried that might spoil your rehire. 

You know, opportunities and the rest, you know, whereas now, um, it's much easier to get to a meeting. You know, that's again, if you're with people who will help enable that, um, but yeah, I don't know. I think touring is going through a bit of a renaissance. I think it's slow. You know, it's still, you know, a big old, you know, it's a big old kind of, uh, monster roadie with a ponytail, a bald spot, you know, a kind of a world tour t shirt, you know, but it's, you know, we're catching up with I think what a lot of other industries, you know, are doing. 

Film being a prime example, they've really cleaned up their act, you know, I think it's 

Sean Walker: Oh, cool. 

Suzi Green: time for us to do the same in some 

Sean Walker: are, what are some of the things that, that we can be doing to be healthier? I mean, I guess in general, cause God, who couldn't use that in general, but, but on the road, you know, where, where you were talking about where a nutritionist and, and, you know, tour manager and production manager and stuff meet, what are some of the things that you're finding where those meet, where you can say like, Here are a few of the big wins that we can do to be healthier just, you know, to our core, not necessarily just, you know, eat a salad instead of a pizza, which kind of seems obvious, but like, what are some of the other things that you really learned? 

Like, Oh man, I got to bring this to the touring world or whatever, you know, or to the production world. 

Suzi Green: Uh, I think it's little things. I, I think you can't make anyone do anything, you know, I mean, like the riots that happen if you're trying to remove the loadout pizza for a start, you know, that makes you really unpopular. Forget it. But, uh, I, I think a lot of it is behavioral change and just offering options. 

And it's everything from like, so you know what we were just saying about, you don't often get to choose the people you're with, um, you know, you quite often take the job without knowing. You know, um, what kind of people you're going to be with if you don't know anyone already. And I think, so like, for example, if you're on a party tour and then you're the person that's choosing not to party, you know, for whatever reason, and then you find out there's a WhatsApp group and on days off, you know, you're not included. 

because everyone has decided this is what we're going to go and do today. We're going to go around you know, all the bars in wherever. Um, and it's kind of about just trying to be a little bit more inclusive because definitely all the best tours are when people are included and when people have got a voice. 

You know, once you start having different sort of fractions, um, I think, yeah, it's not for a healthy environment. And I think That starts almost from the top down, so not only, I think, for the artist to be supported, and that's why we're all there, the artist gets out on stage every day and, you know, needs to give confidently the best performance they can, but then that whole food chain behind them, from the tour manager and the production manager and the crew bosses and, you know, everything from like a van tour to, you know, multi tour bus, truck tour, you know, if everyone feels in some way included. 

Um, and that's back to, I think, if, um, whether, if you have catering on the road, you know, if you have that luxury, there can be healthier options. People can have them if they want it. Um, but again, not forcing people down a certain way. I mean, I've heard of, there's a particular tour I heard of where the artist was vegan and all the catering was vegan. 

And again, that was really unpopular. I think part of that was because the vegan food on offer wasn't that great. And that's not, you're not going to win people over by saying, this is what you're going to have to have, you know, or you've got to go and eat elsewhere. It's immediately, people don't want something they're forced to do. 

Whereas, you know, if the food is done well, then maybe you have an option for the people that prefer not to be vegan. You know, you can sort of inspire a little bit of curiosity by just, Hey, you know, this is really good food. Why don't you try it? It's that kind of thing. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, and it's, it's funny because like there's a couple acts that are notorious enough that I'm like pretty sure I know which, which act you're talking about because it's, I mean, infamously unpopular with locals too because you got locals that are like, we just want to eat like the good food that's here and like the artist is insisting that we can't even eat that and it's like they're, yeah, there's a way to As with anything, yeah, there's like, there's a way to encourage things by offering it, but forcing it is never, I mean, I'm trying to train a new, a new dog and it's the same thing. 

I can guide him towards the right thing, but if I'm just forcing him to do a thing, he's not going to do it. 

Sean Walker: Hey, I'm an old dog and I said I was sorry, dude. Okay. God, it was one time. Jeez Louise. 

Suzi Green: But you can learn new tricks. I mean, 

Sean Walker: right. 

Suzi Green: remember 

Sean Walker: hoping to learn new tricks today, 

Suzi Green: years ago, one of the few tours, that had contracts, because again, I think it's fairly much the same across the US. In the UK, a lot of us don't have, and we don't have contracts, it's verbal, or it might be an email if you're lucky. But I remember one of the few tours I actually signed a contract for, and it had a clause in there, you will not eat meat. 

Uh, anywhere near, you know, or around, or in the same building as the artist. And the first thing I couldn't wait to do is we got to Spain, and me and some of the other crew and a couple of the band went out and was like, God, let's find a tapas bar. And we had like plate platters of meat. We were like stuffing it in. 

And it's that thing, isn't it? Like, yeah, you can't tell people what, what to do. You can just give them information and then make, then make up their own minds and it's up to them. You know. I hope that artist isn't listening and that I went off and ate huge plates of meat behind their back. 

Sean Walker: but it wasn't in the same building. So you're in the clear. You didn't break your contract. 

Suzi Green: That's true. I left the building. That is true. Yeah, good point. That's my story. 

Sean Walker: That's funny, man. I, you know, I didn't know much about, you know, the vegan lifestyle, but I got one tech that works for me pretty regularly that that is. And I'll tell you, man, he brings in some freaking delicious food sometimes. Like. It's, it's unbelievable. You know what I mean? And I'm like, I'm definitely on the, you know, steak and seafood camp or whatever, but like, holy cow, some of that is delicious. 

If it's done right, you know, it's cool. But you're right. Like having the option to try something delicious and different. Is way different than like, Nope, you're stuck. This is how it's going to be, you know? 

Suzi Green: I love the fact you just said holy cow. I'm talking about your vegan friend. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, yeah. Right. Totally. I'm classy like 

Suzi Green: Brilliant. Yeah, but I mean, the point is whether you're talking about food or like, you know, having access to a pool or gym, um, you know, again, and I know it's, it's, it's just the case on some tours, isn't it? You might have the A party, the B party, the C party, and gradually it chunks down in level of hotels, but there's nothing to stop, you know, when you put the tour book together, if the hotel hasn't got any kind of fitness. 

facilities, you know, Hey, this is in the area. These are the nearby parks where you can go for a run. Um, there was a PM. I spoke to you once and he was a really big fan of, um, he would, you know, that thing of you, you'll have the roadbook and you'll have the day schedule and it will be exactly the same. 

every day, you know, other than travel. But you know, if it's a big tour and you're loading in at 8am, right at the start of the tour and at the end of the tour, you're still loading in at 8am, even though people know their jobs inside out by then and actually maybe can do it in two hours less. So it's that sort of recognition of like, okay, we're all familiar here. 

We're replicating day after day. We can start. Either, you know, loading starts a bit later, people can get some more sleep, you know, that's a rare and beautiful thing on a lot of tours. Or, uh, what he used to do was put in family time later in the day, so it would be like an hour or two hours where people can go off and he would encourage people to either phone home or go out and exercise, you know, or go out and just get outside the venue and get a bit of daylight, you know, because that's an easy thing to, you know, Miss out on daylight, you know, sometimes for like weeks at a time, you get straight off the bus, you go straight into the venue, come out, it's dark, you get back on the bus, you roll to the next city. 

So it's kind of, that's what I mean, like this sort of, hey, being healthy on tour, you know, it isn't, you know, let's all do, put our lycra on and do yoga and, you know, live on salad. It's just about little bit of awareness, you know, as to just pacing your day. And a bit of kindness around other people. Um, another thing actually, which I think is a great thing, and I know it's a global organization, Mental Health First Aid, which is a course you can do. 

It's the same as people do first aid courses, you know, for, you know, for, you know, immediate first first aid, which, you know, there has to be first aiders on tours, but mental health first aid is very much about, um, kind of listening skills, um, flagging in a group of people of like, I'm a mental health first aider, if anyone has a problem, you can come and talk to me in confidence, um, having a little bit of knowledge around signposting for other resources, so you know, you know, the kind of problems you might be able to help with but also recognizing the kind of things that are beyond your remit and you might then need to you know Signposts to other kind of help, but, you know, again, I think the nicest tours are the ones where people meet regularly, whether it's heads of departments or preferably whole teams and, you know, how's it going for you? 

What's, what's not working for you? What is working for you? Okay, how can we tweak this? You know, and again, it's sort of looking around and making every person on that tour feel seen, heard. You know, I mean, again, I like, I've been on, I remember there was a tour I was on and there were two brothers working on the tour and they looked fairly similar. 

And the artist, the main artist. Literally, I think we'd been out for three weeks, suddenly saw the two of them in the same place at the same time and realized there were two people. Up to then she thought it was more of us, which kind of showed her lack of, you know, for what they did. But what I mean is, you know, people, you know, bust their arses on tour and, you know, sometimes Especially, you know, the big tours where not everyone knows their name or you're, you know, sound person, you know, number seven, you know, it's, it's kind of, you get lost in that crowd. 

Um, I think any way that you can actually make people stop, be a bit more aware of each other, you'll have a better tour for it. People will work together better as a team if you put that structure in, you know, from the beginning. So I guess that's what I mean by healthy touring more than anything. You know, Cucumber is optional. 

Sean Walker: So just generally at like just a, a kinder environment overall is kind of a, the big, the big takeaway from that. 

Suzi Green: Yeah, and I think actually going back to your point before about, is it changing? I think, you know, those shouty kind of showdowns, you know, you'd always see the shouty tour managers. They used to do a lot of festival work. You could spot them coming in. I mean, you normally got the tone of the email before they'd even got there anyway, but who the hell wants to be out with, you know, working in a team where your boss is constantly berating you and shouting at you? 

You know, actually you can get people to do what needs to be done in a much more pleasant manner, in a kind of much happier kind of atmosphere. There was, um, we, we had a guest on, um, he's actually a psychotherapist and he works on tours in New Zealand. And Live Nation bring him in on quite, you know, a lot of their kind of arena tours. 

And, uh, yeah, he's there just for people to talk to and he'll go around and introduce himself. And he said, uh, there was a movement that started for a while, I think it's still going in New Zealand, where local crew guys who can get treated really badly, um, you know, they really are quite often faceless local crew. 

But if local crew was shouted at, you know, by the visiting crew, they would all down to us and all sit down on the floor until the shouting stopped. And I've never seen that happen, but I thought, wow, isn't that amazing? Because, you know, that's going to change behavior right there. It's getting people to stop, think, and then go. 

Okay, that's not going to work here. 

Sean Walker: Oh, that's funny. Just, everybody's like, boop, seated. You're like, what the, what happened? 

Suzi Green: I mean, I hate, I'm ashamed to say it. I actually had that effect in Starbucks once where um, I 

Sean Walker: Oh, no. 

Suzi Green: taking so long to make my coffee and this was definitely in the bad old days and I'm like, kind of getting stressed thinking, I actually was, and there was a tour bus and there was something else over there and I'm like, Jesus Christ, they're waiting for me to get my coffee and I've got to have my coffee or I'm going to freak out. 

Um, and they were literally, you know, like, hey lady, you know, pipe down. And then they just all stopped what they were doing, put down their, you know, tin jugs of hot milk or whatever, folded their arms and then looked at me and there's nothing I could do. 

Sean Walker: Oh, no. 

Suzi Green: that day and I didn't get my coffee. 

Sean Walker: Oh, no. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, that's, I know, like. I know like two things I've, I've been trying to be conscious of like when I'm at work lately is both not being, for lack of a better way to put it, a bit of a shit when, when getting frustrated, but also both allowing myself that grace when it does happen, but to acknowledge it and that while it's best to not Be terrible to the people around you like if you have a moment where you slip and due to situations you're terrible to cop to it and say and come back around and say hey look I was being an ass before like it's not about you it's about whatever else was going on totally uncooled me and I'm sorry and let's just start over. 

And, 

Sean Walker: Totally. 

Andy Leviss: and like, I feel like that's a thing that like up until recently, like the, the live entertainment industry has been very allergic to, to, to any of like, like, whether you're talking about your feelings or admitting you were wrong. Um, 

Sean Walker: I mean, I'm married. I've been wrong for a decade. 

Andy Leviss: I, you did that to yourself though. 

Suzi Green: We won't go there. I'm sure there's reasons. 

Sean Walker: decade of my life. Best decade of my life. 

Suzi Green: But it's like, it's that thing, isn't it, of like, you know, everyone has good days, bad days. And I think that's amplified when you're on tour because of the sleep deprivation, because of the high pressure. Cause of you've gone into that venue and something is terrible. For whatever reason, you think, oh, this is going to be one hell of a day, you know, and you lash out, you react maybe much more than you would. 

ordinarily, you know, when you, you haven't only had four hours sleep or whatever. Um, but then as well, I think, like you say, it's like owning it, apologizing, holding your hand 

Andy Leviss: Sean just got coffee delivery. Hehehe. 

Suzi Green: I'm quite jealous. Look, that's like a fancy coffee. So that's got 

Sean Walker: Uh, dude, speaking of being married, I just, the wife just brought me coffee and I've I've I do all over again. I do. 

Suzi Green: That 10 years thing, she didn't hear that. Does she? Does she listen to 

Sean Walker: no, 

Andy Leviss: perfectly timed. 

Sean Walker: I got one of those big booming voices you can hear through the entire house. There are no secrets happening. And there's nothing that I would say behind my wife's back I haven't said to her face because that is not how you have a long marriage. You know what I mean? 

Suzi Green: And she still brings you frothy coffee. 

Sean Walker: amazing. I'm married up for sure. 

Suzi Green: She's probably, yeah, going through all your things right now and deciding 

Sean Walker: Nope. 

Suzi Green: and what's going to go. 

Sean Walker: Nope. Nope. I'm on the divorce prevention program. Compliments, foot rubs, you know how it goes. 

Suzi Green: yeah, but you see, you laugh, right? Because this is your family set up, but you think actually touring quite often, it's almost like being in a dysfunctional family, for better or for worse. And it's all back to that thing. If some, if you're having a bad day, you know, you realize, God, I'm in a foul mood, you know, so then take yourself off. 

For, for, you know, leave the venue, tell someone, I've got to just take 10 minutes and take a walk around the block, you know, I guess this is like traditionally where people go out and light up a cigarette, but if you can avoid the cigarette, if possible, and just go for a walk, get an air, you know, get that bit of air and just reset and then go back in 

Andy Leviss: I've, I've been in a previous job, you know, when I was working in the installs, uh, side of the AV industry, I was doing a commissioning with The consultant who was being a pain and, and was getting in that very circuitous, you keep asking for a thing that we already told you literally isn't possible and circling around, and it got to the point where I was like, I need to either step away, walk around the block a couple times, or I'm going to get fired today. 

And that was the best I could do was like, we're going to pause this conversation. I'm taking a break, 

Sean Walker: Get fired. Get fired. I'll stand at your shoulder, get fired, Eddie. 

Andy Leviss: right? That's Sean's the bad idea bear. 

Sean Walker: Get him. Get fired. 

Andy Leviss: But yeah, it does. It's, or that's like, well, 

Sean Walker: Yeah. 

Andy Leviss: and that's like the other, like, it's a, it's a trick I picked up years and years ago for like, particularly with emails too, is you don't fill in the to field, you write the angry response email you want. You get every emotion out, you hit select all and you delete it. And at that point you're so frustrated at the thought of even having to write it again that you write the much nicer email the second time and that's when you fill in the two and hit send. 

Suzi Green: Plus you can never get the wording so good second time around when you're trying to be angry. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah. 

Sean Walker: And the second time around doesn't start with you son of a bitch, like the first one did. That's not, that's always a plus. It always works better that way. 

Suzi Green: yeah, right, yeah, wow, yeah, interesting. I mean it's funny because You know, on what we do on the back lounge, it's kind of, it's very much they're open meetings. Um, you know, people come and go, say, please, there's no membership. There's nothing formal about it. People can talk if they want to, or can just listen. 

You know, they can hide their names, their faces. It doesn't matter. Um, it's mostly, you know, we have a lot of core regulars and we have people that drop in and out depending on if they're on tour or not. And we just talk about the different issues. that come up for people and it's funny, it's just that thing of when you talk to other people who have been in the same situation, you know, you'll look around and nod at each other and go, yeah, I get that, you know, and whether that is that kind of being on one of those angry tours, you know, because again, I think it, you know, it's back to that, it filters down from the top. 

I think, uh, you know, if the atmosphere is one of kind of paranoia and hostility. Then no one's having a good time, are they? So, you know, but then what can you do as one person within a group of people? You know, whatever your rank is in that hierarchy, how can you start having, you know, slightly more positive effects? 

You know, or do you vote with your feet and walk is the other thing. Life 

Sean Walker: Totally. 

Suzi Green: is short, isn't it? 

Sean Walker: Sure is. Sure 

Andy Leviss: And, and that, I mean, that comes down to such a hard decision tree sometimes of both. Whether I need the work or not and, and the sticking in and let it be a problem for somebody else. Or like, do I have it within me to stay in and try and fix the situation both for myself and for anybody else here? 

Anybody else who may come along after me? 

Sean Walker: Or can the situation be fixed? You know what I mean? Like if you're talking about changing people, you obviously, you oftentimes cannot just fix the problem, right? Because you can't just, like you were saying, Suzi, you can't just change somebody, right? They gotta, like, want to change or be changing. So maybe you can by saying, hey man, this This, that, or the other thing, or maybe they're just like, Nope, brrp. 

In which case you got to decide how bad you need the paycheck, you know? 

Andy Leviss: Yeah. It's whether dealing with people or dealing with constraints on a sound system or anything, it's always, it comes down to what I was saying in the discord a week or two ago. It's, it's. The Kenny Rogers moment. You gotta know one to hold him, know one to fold him, know one to walk away. And sometimes 

Suzi Green: that's so good. I've never heard that before. 

Andy Leviss: And now we're all gonna have that song stuck in our head all day. 

Sean Walker: Damn it, Andy. 

Andy Leviss: It's uh, I hate to admit it because I know Kenny Rogers ain't cool, but it's kind of a banger. 

Suzi Green: But I mean, I have left, I left a big tour. Again, I was waiting to do it until, you know, the industry started up again for the pandemic. And I did one run and Yeah, a witness on behaviour, I just thought, I cannot stay here, this will, I'll suffer, my mental health will suffer if I stay working in this environment. 

So, um, I left, I walked, I finished the run, um, and then I was like, this isn't for me. And I thought, this was the beginning of last summer, I thought, oh my god, what am I going to say goodbye to a whole year plus of, you know, ShureSert. work. 

Sean Walker: Oh, that's 

Suzi Green: And actually, yeah, but you know, it's really funny. I think sometimes you've got to, got to, you know, whether you're declaring it to the universe or declaring it to yourself, it's like, this is what I need in my working environment to do a good job. 

And within 10 days, I had two new clients and I had an incredible summer. 

Sean Walker: You go girl. 

Suzi Green: Yeah, I mean, I, I'm, you know, I'm not making that up as some kind of hippie thing like, yeah, you've got to tell the universe. All I know is that's my experience. I find more and more when I try and live by my values of what I think, you know, is a decent way. 

To work, you know, the more that seems to be happening, you know, and unfortunately that, that did mean I voted with my feet on a particular tour. 

Sean Walker: I, I agree with you a hundred percent. I agree with you a hundred percent on what you're saying. And nobody that is a regular listener to this podcast will accuse me of being introspective or hippy dippy stuff. But I totally agree that whatever energy or vibe or emotions you put out into the world is what the world gives back to you. 

You know what I mean? We all have those acquaintances or friends that are Just bummers. Eeyore. Whatever. Always got problems. Always got drama. Always, like, something's always going wrong. Because that's what they're talking about. That's what they're putting out into the world. And then we've got those friends that just seem like the world doesn't bother them and they're always lucky and things are always happening because they're always positive and putting positivity and good things and optimism out into the world and that's what they're getting back. 

And I'm, I'm, I'm with you. If you're putting out good things in the world, even if you had to, you know, beat feet from your other tour, it's no wonder you had two new clients 10 days later because people are like, Oh dude, she's rad. We totally want her on board. Or somebody said something great about you that you didn't even know. 

Cause you were great five years ago with somebody and they were like, Oh, you should reach out to Suzi. She's a killer. And she just left her other gig, you know, like I'm, I'm totally with you. It's totally true. 

Suzi Green: I mean, you know what, it's another funny thing is like, I really believe in thanking people and acknowledging the work they do. And when, um, when I go anywhere, actually, whether it's festivals or headline shows or whatever, if we've been treated well, I'll always send a thank you. Always. And that's really stood in good stead because I know that sometimes, like with festivals, you go back a year or two years later with a different artist, and I'll always stick in, you know, into the search. 

Who did I deal with last time? And I'll see the last email I sent, you know, and likewise, I know they're doing that too. And it's great because I can first of all send an email and go, Oh, hey, I came through with blah, blah, blah. You know, and you remember the good people and you remember the arseholes, don't you? 

Sean Walker: Totally, totally. 

Suzi Green: it's like, try and try to lightly be kind, you know, because everyone on some level is trying to do their job. And if you can actually, you know, leave a nice smell behind you, it's gonna pave your way next time you go there and hopefully make things nice for other people too, so. 

Sean Walker: Absolutely. And oftentimes It's like the little things or the little gestures, just, you know, just being kind, being a nice person, especially in stressful situations or, or high pressure situations, you know what I mean? And if you see that somebody else, like in your particular case, if you're at a festival with an artist and you can see that the house, you know, crew is, is having a day, just, you know, making sure they got a case of water or fresh pot of coffee or something by the stage they can sort out, they'll think you're a superstar and you're like, I literally just went 10 feet over here and got a case of water. 

Like, it's not a big deal to you, but they're like, Oh my God, you're the best ever. And they'll totally remember you when you come back. Cause the team on the ground is like, Oh dude, Suzi was incredible. She sorted us out. We were like under the gun. Dude, you can get whatever you want. You want a faster changeover, you want longer times, you want more cables, what do you need? 

Like, we got you. 

Suzi Green: It's so funny, you know, I, I do like exactly that is with security. You know how you get, I mean, God, man, that's a hard job. You know how you get security standing there 12 hours, still the same person standing there. You never see him with water, a coffee cart, anything. And I quite often, I'm like, do you want something? 

Can we get you something? And from the start, it means they're never going to ask to look at your AAA pass again as you walk past and remember you. 

Sean Walker: Totally. Or anybody you're bringing with you. 

Suzi Green: Yeah, but it's also like, maybe you've made just a little bit difference to someone's day, 

you know, that's what I, 

mean, that's what I think the philosophy of, you know, like, if we could all just do a little bit for, you know, you can't always affect the big picture, but if you can do something small, and we will do something small, it's going to make change, isn't it? 

Sean Walker: Totally. 

Andy Leviss: yeah, I, I very rarely these days, like, I will not go out of a stage door from a venue without stopping to say, hey, I'm coming back in, you know, 10 minutes, you need a coffee or anything. It's, you know, it costs you nothing. They're often like, no, no, I'm good. And when they're not like at most, it costs you five bucks to make somebody's day a lot easier. 

And it will make your life easier. That's, as I would say, going into a new venue, like the The first two people you got to make friends with, there's security, and if there's a bartender, the bartender, even if not for yourself, at some point that's going to make your life with the artist easier when they need something. 

Suzi Green: Totally, totally, you know, and I mean, it's also, it's not just about, you know, mercenary, great, what can I get out of this? It's just like, you know what, it just might make someone's day a bit better. You don't know what kind of a shitty day they had before they walked into their job, you 

Sean Walker: Totally. And I wasn't saying it necessarily to get something out of it, just that when you are overly kind to people for no reason, you do get stuff out of it, is what my point was, you know what I mean? If 

Suzi Green: You, yeah, 

Sean Walker: if you are Overly, yeah, the bonus is they will bend over backwards, little favors and little things on your end, like Andy was saying about coffee or whatever that's not really that big of a deal for you to, like, grab an extra cup of coffee for the security guy on your way out if you're already going for coffee, may change his whole day, you know what I mean? 

And that's, what's little to you may be huge to somebody else, and that's huge, super important, and it'll make everything about your day easier, you know what I mean? You're totally right, I'm, I'm with you. 

Suzi Green: But that's, I mean, you think about that as well, like, if you put again that into the touring context and you think of everything from having like a WhatsApp group that's inclusive. You know, day off options that includes everybody, you know, um, but also things like on the rider, say there are people who are, you know, trying to stay clean, trying to keep away from alcohol. 

Well, if there's a spare room, why don't you have a, you know, an alcohol free room, you know, for them, it makes their life a bit easier. And again, it's just that sort of seeing people, noticing them, clocking what they need. You know, you, you will all have a better time for that, 100%. This is a really different podcast to some of your audio ones.  

Andy Leviss: No, we like to mix it up, but it's, it's great, you know, it's like we can, we can, we can talk about how to get the perfect snare drum sound till, till we're blue in the face, but at a certain point, you know, that's not what matters. 

Sean Walker: samples. Samples. 

Andy Leviss: fair. 

Sean Walker: Yeah. 

Andy Leviss: But yeah, no, that's, it's, it's definitely a thing we do. We try and try and keep a focus on this, balancing it out with all these other parts of the job and other parts of making sure that, you know, we're all taking care of ourselves and each other. 

Um, yeah, I know I, I, I was going to ask, cause I know it seems like with Backlamp, it's a mix of like, sometimes it's just. Like kind of everybody chatting about the topic and sometimes you're bringing experts in on a particular subject. Is that, 

Suzi Green: That, so we have like general check ins, like a temperature check, how is everyone, and we talk about whatever. Um, And then we have sometimes like particular themes, um, so like we had last night we had imposter syndrome, 

Andy Leviss: I was going to say, cause as, as we were talking about before we, before we started recording this, we were talking about our own imposter syndromes and I was like, didn't you just have a session 

Sean Walker: Dude, guilty as charged. 

Suzi Green: for sure, and it's massive in the music industry, and when you think about it, so like for example that was something that it's a real, we've run it three times, and the first time we ran it, uh, we had Gannis. Tail end of the pandemic, we had a production manager come on and he was talking about, I'm really worried about if I can still do my job and if I'll know what to do when I go back to work. 

And then after the call, someone phoned me, he was on the call and said, you know who that was? That was Adele's production manager. And I mean, that kind of blew me away because you think there's the scope from right from people first starting out and thinking, I don't know what I'm doing and someone's going to notice, you know, to that high out in the food chain, you know, so it's, I mean, that's what I mean, that these are the kinds of things that I think the music industry, we don't often have bits of paper to say, you know, I am a blah, blah, blah, blah. 

And this certificate says I'm really good at what I do. Um, you know, quite often you're winging it. You've learned on the job. Um, you know, so yes, we did that. Then we're going to run one on, um, we're going to run a kind of diversity call, which we've already done a few as well of just trying to mix up the crew a bit and just trying to, ah, so I've got a revolving cat, which if you can hear me meowing on the call, I apologize. 

Andy Leviss: Okay. 

Suzi Green: That 

Sean Walker: alright, we're pet friendly around here. 

Suzi Green: Yeah, I could see that right away. Um, but yeah, just about, just trying to mix things up a bit. Um, again, I think you look at a lot of industries and it's, you know, it's a rainbow colored world. Um, but I think again, touring crew is still quite slow to change. Um, I know when I first started tour managing, um, weren't very many female tour managers around, you know, and the ones that did meet. 

were quite hostile, which I think was because you had to fight to be, I mean, this is like the 90s, you know, you know, you were fighting to, to prove that you were there and you had a reason to be there. Um, and now, um, there's a lot more women around, there's a lot more women and non binary and every different, you know, starting to move around in the roles and. 

in the technical roles too. I think that's great but I think for that to stick and for more diversity we need to make touring a bit friendlier and a bit kinder because people aren't going to stay. They're not going to be interested in working these roles or stay, you know, if they they don't feel like they have an ally. 

You know, if they're not allowed to be a little bit different to everyone else, so I think there's that too. I think that's starting to happen, slowly,  

Sean Walker: Totally. Do you, do you, uh 

Andy Leviss: working in the, you know, I work a lot in the theater and like Broadway and like that kind of touring world as well, and I've been seeing the same shifts, um, and it's been great because, yeah, and like I know, like particularly in sound, like for a long time it was that, like, as the, if there's gonna be one woman on the call, like, Sometimes you would get that, like, backstabbing going on to make sure that that one is going to be me, and it's been great to see that change from both directions, that, you know, it's, in a lot of places I work, there's, there's no longer that need, that assumption that women aren't going to be good at it, or that they need to prove themselves, and also, from the other hand, not feeling that you've got to compete because you're going to be the one And yeah, it's been much more welcoming. 

And I mean, I've built shows where nearly my entire crew was female and those were some of the best and smoothest shows I've had. Um. And, and yeah, people of all colors, flavors. Some are great, some are terrible. It's, it has nothing to do with your, your skin, your gender, or anything. It just has to do with are, are you a good human and are you good at what you do or are you not 

Suzi Green: Oh, and it's funny. I did, uh, the tour I did with the most women on was for an artist called Katie Merlo and a few years ago, and she had, we had a female front house, um, we had sort of various female crew members and, you know, catering and usual suspects, but we had a, a 16 piece, um, Georgian choir. All female, hardcore, you know, vodka drinking, cigarette smoking, voices of angels. 

Sean Walker: You 

Suzi Green: And they were like, 

Sean Walker: usually associate cigarettes and vodka with Voices of Angels. I, I would think that's closer to Lemmy from Motorhead than Voices of Angels, right? Ha 

Suzi Green: I mean, this is what I mean, they were hardcore. And it was funny because we had three buses on that one, and the choir tour bus, they had one handler who was a guy who always looked a bit scared, you know. And, uh, it's funny because they're The, uh, you would even look at the three buses parked up and for some reason they'd always have all the lights on really bright on their tour bus, they'd be sitting there in as bright light as possible, you know, there's no mood lighting going on that, and then they would just constantly eat all the sweets, the crisps, the chocolate, you know, the bus driver would come in and like siphon off the snacks from the other, to kind of feed the choir. 

That 

Sean Walker: ha! 

Andy Leviss: just picturing one of those zoo signs on the side of the bus. Please do not feed perturb 

Suzi Green: Yeah, careful, careful, careful when you feed the, yeah, slowly, gently with, uh, yeah, with the 

Andy Leviss: as long as you don't feed 'em after. 

Suzi Green: Yeah, yeah. 

Sean Walker: That's 

Suzi Green: I'm old enough to know that reference. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, me too, me too. 

Andy Leviss: We'll explain it in the show notes for, like, Evan and the other youngins. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, 

Suzi Green: yeah, you could put a link. So the movie, 

Andy Leviss: Yep. Um, so, like, with all the, like, the various, like, subject experts you've kind of brought in for all these meetings, like, are there any, like, tips or tricks from them that you can boil down to, you know, give our listeners, like, an idea of, you know, like, I have, like, half a question form there, but I think you know where I  

Suzi Green: Yeah, I'm trying to think, what can I give, I mean, so we ran, a couple of years ago, we ran three kind of big workshops actually, um, and the Arts Council in the UK supported it, and we did quite a lot of publicity around it, and one was, um, about Mental Welfare and Physical Health. And that was with the Music Industry Therapy Collective, who Tamsin Embleton, who heads up that organization, has just published this amazing book, which I know is available stateside as well. 

It's like the Music Industry, um, uh, Mental, Mental Welfare Bible. I'll tell you what, I'll give you the link and you can put that 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, no, we'll put it 

Suzi Green: the show notes as well. Um, and she, you know, they had various people coming on from that organization talking about different tweaks you could, you could do, um, some of which we talked about already, and then we had a sustainability call, and that was very much about little things you can do. 

You know, in touring, like touring is incredibly unsustainable and you know, you're moving from city to city, you know, huge amount of waste, uh, vast amounts of fuel, quite often, quite a lot of flying, you know, how can you make touring greener? You know, there are things you can do and it's everything from, you know, like just Plastic bottles. 

Carry refillable bottles. It's not that hard, you know. You can buy cheap water pumps. You can have, you know, which you hook into big bottles. You know, we were doing things like that. Likewise, when we had tours with catering, it's a lot less wasteful. Um, we, you know, reutilize everything. You know, it just means your footprint goes down. 

You know, likewise, I've seen a lot of tours, you know, starting to use trains. and things. Um, you know, you might have a van or truck on the road with a kit and the people, you know, are traveling by train. Sorry about the revolving cat. I know you can't, you can't see that listeners, but I have a pink cat with no hair. 

Sean Walker: The cat's awesome. 

Suzi Green: the cat is back again. 

Andy Leviss: direction, and then she was a 

Suzi Green: Short term memory loss, you know, 

Sean Walker: Dude, a train would be cool, though, I think. Cause you have, 

Suzi Green: You can, 

Sean Walker: everything's there 

Suzi Green: yeah, and you can get up, you can walk around, you know, especially like, you know, tours that are in vans where you're stuck in a van, you know, no room, you're sick of all the people around, you're eating bad snacks from, you know, fuel stops on the way and you're on a train, you're walking around and, you know, why, why not? 

Why not sort of take a little bit and look at the transport and the routing? Um, and then the other call we did was, yeah, it was very much about how to be an ally and diversity. Um, and again, you know, just. learning some of the language, you know, around, you know, people's sort of gender sensitivities and, you know, again, which is back to trying to make the tour kind of a welcoming place, you know, and encourage, you know, different kinds of people to come and work in this, you know, amazing industry. 

Don't know if that answered your question or not, sort of. 

Andy Leviss: I think so, it was, yeah, I mean it was a very open ended question, so There's no wrong answer. Um, yeah, I think that's great, and actually it's funny, I'm glad you mentioned the mental health first aid earlier too, because you're reminding me, I've got a friend and sometimes co worker here in New York, who's a local One Union stagehand who not only is It's like certified in mental health first aid, but in the last year or so it's gotten certified to teach it, um, and, and regularly offers like through both the IOTSE local here and otherwise mental health first aid classes, and I'm realizing I should, I should reach out to Kaylee and see about having them come on and, and talk about that a bit more. 

Suzi Green: Oh my God. It's an amazing thing. It's a great subject to get someone to come and talk about. I mean, if you think about mental, the record for mental health in touring is appalling. Um, you know, hugely inflated numbers of, you know, depression, suicide, and I mean just from general statistics, the general population, you know, suicide, um, I know UK side, Europe side, um, is highest in young men. 

That's the biggest killer. That's bigger than road accidents. And you think, that is insane, and you think, wow, if, you know, you had every tour, had a Mental Health First Aider, or someone who had, who took it upon themselves to be a nominated person, if you're having a problem, you know, because again, you're, while you're away, life still happens, you still have crises at home, um, you know. 

Births, deaths, all sorts of things happen while you're away on tour. You know, you're away for a lot of these really big, significant things. And sometimes you can't just leave and go home. You know, you're dealing with whatever it is. And just to know there's someone you can go to, to talk to, you know, just it's a little, feels a bit better, a bit more supportive. 

Yeah, do the course. It's great. 

Andy Leviss: Right on. Yeah, no, that's definitely going on my shortlist for, as I've said, in the next couple months. And like I said, we'll also reach out and see about if Kaylee wants to come on and talk more detail and, you know, and give some of those tips to listeners too, because I think that'd be a really, really valuable thing. 

Cause like I said, we do, we do a lot of talk about the sound nerd stuff here, but there's so many other aspects of this career and industry that are important. And you know, that's, that's why I'm glad, I'm glad we got in touch with you to get you on this week to talk about it. 

Suzi Green: Oh, pleasure, pleasure. I mean, there's one more thing I'll add, actually. Um, when, when I did the Mental Health First Aid course, which covered you three years ago now, um, I did it with a colleague who's a production manager, and we both came out of it feeling, it's funny, like addiction isn't really covered in this, and we did Mental Health First Aid specifically You know, but run by a music industry charity. 

Um, so we went to them and said, what would it be to create a course, you know, a short course, just a little bit about addiction recovery awareness. How can you support colleagues that you work alongside, you know, who help prevent. Relapses. You know, what can you do? Um, and we ended up, you know, we got into further conversations. 

They priced up. This is what it would cost to produce a course like that. And we went off and we fundraised and we had Massive Attack, Nile Rodgers, uh, Rocket Cargo, uh, you know, to name a few people that put money in. And it basically, it got the course off the ground. It got the, you know, the course put together and it's been run for free for anyone that works in the music industry. 

In the UK for the last 18 months and now what we want to do is try and get someone to pick that up in the US, you know, because, you know, it's four hours, you know, you could save someone's life, you could, you know, educate every time, it's got to be worth it. I think that the worst thing is, is to live with yourself if there was something where you could have intervened with the knowledge, but you didn't have the knowledge, you couldn't do anything. 

Andy Leviss: that's amazing. And I mean, I mean just listen to that and you talking about like having imposter syndrome Like the fact that you did that it's like this. I don't I don't want to hear about imposter syndrome for me Suzi That's an astounding 

Suzi Green: Yeah, but I don't know what, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm, I'm just, uh, 

Andy Leviss: No, none of 

Suzi Green: I have nothing special about me. All I, all I do is I look around and I try and see if there's something I can do to help. That's all. 

Andy Leviss: Uh, that's awesome. 

Suzi Green: that. 

Sean Walker: Totally awesome. 

Andy Leviss: Well, cool. I mean, I think that seems like a natural place to wrap this up. So, you know, thanks for, thanks for coming in and chatting with us about all this stuff. You know, we've got a bunch of links we're going to get from you to put in the show notes. Um, I was just looking on the side, so the Touring and Mental Health Manual that Suzi was talking about, which we'll link to in the notes, is touringmanual. 

com, easy to remember. Um, 

Suzi Green: totally recommend it. It's fantastic. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, we'll do that. We'll link to some, some of these mental health first aid courses. Um, lots of resources here. And, uh, for those that do participate in the Signal Noise Discord, we do have one of our forums on there. There's a mental health channel that has some resources in it, and we'll go through and add some of these that aren't in there already, and encourage folks to hang out there too. 

And, you know, Suzi, if you want, I'll send you the link to that, and you're always welcome to pop in there as well, as if you're not busy enough already. Um, 

Suzi Green: Yeah. I'll have a look for sure. 

Andy Leviss: cool. Well, thanks so much, everybody. Yeah. Thanks, Sean. Thanks, Suzi. Uh, thanks as always to our sponsors, RCF and Allen and Heath. And, uh, we'll see you next time on the next episode of Signal and Noise. 

Sean Walker: See y'all! 

Suzi Green: Thank you. 

Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green