240. Dave Unger, Veteran FOH Engineer/Tour Manager

Chicago-based front of house engineer and tour manager Dave Unger joins the show in Episode 240 and talks about his career mixing high-energy world music artists that include Femi Kuti and the Positive Force, Bombino, Sierra Leone Refugee Allstars, and many others at some of the highest profile venues and festivals in the world such as Coachella, the New Orleans and Montreal Jazz Festivals, Philharmonie de Paris, Bonnaroo, the Hollywood Bowl, the 9:30 Club, The Apollo, Austin City Limits, and more. This episode is sponsored by Allen & Heath and RCF.

Dave also talks about his work as the house engineer for the Old Town School of Folk Music, and mixing broadcast for Smoky Norful’s Victory Cathedral Worship Center, and extols the virtues of the world of Chicago pizza beyond deep dish!

Episode Links:
Dave Unger On Facebook & Instagram
Dave Unger Sound
Kenji López-Alt’s Dive Into Chicago Tavern Pizza
Episode 240 Transcript

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Episode 240 Transcript

Transcript

Episode 240 - Dave Unger

Note: This is an automatically generated transcript, so there might be mistakes--if you have any notes or feedback on it, please send them to us at signal2noise@prosoundweb.com so we can improve the transcripts for those who use them!

Voiceover: You’re listening to Signal to Noise, part of the ProSoundWeb podcast network, proudly brought to you this week by the following sponsors:

Allen & Heath, introducing their new CQ series, a trio of compact digital mixers for musicians, bands, audio engineers, home producers, small venues, and installers that puts ease of use and speed of setup at the heart of the user experience.

RCF, who has just unveiled their new TT+ Audio brand, including the high performance GTX series line arrays and the GTS29 subwoofer. Be sure to check it out at rcf-usa.com. That's rcf-usa.com.

Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green


Andy Leviss: What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Signal the Noise. I'm Andy Leviss. Over there is my buddy, Sean Walker. How are you doing, Sean? 

Sean Walker: I'm partying, dude. AKA drinking coffee and doing paperwork, you know, 

Andy Leviss: I am. 

Sean Walker: a sound business owner. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, there's not enough coffee in the world for me today. It's, uh, so we've talked before about how in New York, one of the important, uh, uh, observant weeks is up front week for event professionals. The other one that we haven't talked about yet, and that I've disavowed myself from for like 14 years until this year is Fashion Week. 

Sean Walker: So you're just a glutton for punishment this year? You're like, fuck it. We'll do 

Andy Leviss: Apparently, which, um, and I mean, I mean, unlike Upfront Week, I assume Fashion Week is a little more self explanatory and a little wider known. Um, but yeah, 

Sean Walker: dresses. I got it. Yeah. I'm 

Andy Leviss: yeah, or in this case, models in weird sneakers is, uh, the Puma, is this, like, the Puma Mostra line? 

Sean Walker: I mean, I, I'm into both models and weird sneakers, so I'm with you, dude. I like it. 

Andy Leviss: we go. So, yeah, I was, I was doing a Riedel, uh, com programming for, for that all week, and then I'll be doing another one in a couple days, but it was, last night was like the, like, 12 hour day till, like, it was supposed to go to midnight, and we got cut at 11 p. 

m. after the show, which was a nice surprise, 

Sean Walker: Nice. All Riedel flop, dude. What is that? Uh, You know, for us normal people here, what does that do for you? That something like free speak doesn't, is that hella more flexible? 

Andy Leviss: To an extent, yeah, I mean, the, the biggest obvious Two things on the, on the wireless belt packs, which is the Bolero is, is they're wireless, is you've got six keys instead of four, which on busy corporate events, even that's sometimes not enough, but like four, I'm always having somebody who it's like, well, which channel do you want to trade? 

Sean Walker: So it's always on reply. You got like a fifth channel on reply for somebody every time. And 

Andy Leviss: Yeah. And the, whereas the, 

Sean Walker: Bolero. It's great. I was just like, in your perspective, how 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, it's, it's the ability to like, there's more flexibility in Reply, there's like, it's a lot of the same features, but more expanded, and then you can do cool logic stuff, like if, if you're doing a full system with an artist frame, like I had a wireless pack as the com programmer, but a desk panel on my station, and I was able to set it so when I keyed either one, it would duck my volume and only my volume to the other station, so it didn't feed back when I was Talking next to the other one. 

Sean Walker: Word. That's awesome. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah. And the fact that, and like, first I figured out how to make it dim, just the whole speaker, and I was like, wait a second, I can actually just dim the cross point. So I still hear everybody else at full volume. It just ducks myself down. So it sort of becomes like a weird, like private mix minus only when I'm keying in. 

Sean Walker: that is very on brand for your nerd ass. Andy, 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's 

Sean Walker: That's why we like you, bro. Cause you bring the smarts to this joint. 

Andy Leviss: I just beat my head against the stupid enough until it seems smart, 

Sean Walker: Is that what I'm doing wrong? Not enough head beating? 

Andy Leviss: it might be, it might be, but, um, yeah, this, this week was an adventure cause it was, um, uh, the. Performance Artist was EarthEater, uh, if, if folks know, uh, them, and it's very, lots of low end droney stuff. 

Sean Walker: All right. 

Andy Leviss: I, I learned what, uh, about a 115dB of 42Hz sine wave does to the human body, and it's simultaneously very pleasant and very unpleasant, let's put it that way. 

Sean Walker: Poop? 

Andy Leviss: not quite, but, um, I mean, at a 

Dave Unger: the brown note. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, right. 

Andy Leviss: There was a point that my laptop started popping Windows Calculator open over and over again from the vibrations, I have no idea how, and I was like, I hope nobody needs anything on com till the performance is over, because I literally have no control over my computer right now. 

Sean Walker: Oh my goodness, dude. 

Andy Leviss: It was, yeah, it was an adventure. 

Sean Walker: man The the Riedel thing is pretty cool back to I'm sorry to come back, but we have one client that I mean, since we're on comm, we have one client that's in a, let's call it a giant Faraday cage for their, for their thing. And the free speak has been a little challenging, but we went to IP transceivers, which, which worked great. 

And then, uh, and I'm not sure why, because I don't know, but I do know that somebody smarter than me was like, Oh man, you need to use the IP transceivers and be better. And we also tried a Bolero rig, which worked great in that situation. Uh, and people like you or Aram are smarter and could tell me why that is. 

But it was cool that it's a different, it's somehow different in the way it transmits the audio and, and stuff that it worked better in this very challenging environment than just straight up FreeSpeak did. Although FreeSpeak's been great for us and, you know, every other 

Andy Leviss: yeah, I mean, they're using the same like general frequency or they're all using that DACT DECT, you know, 1. 9 gigahertz. And but they're using it a little differently. So they get like different channel counts, like Bolero can get 10 belt packs. So they recommend eight to an antenna, whereas Freespeak, I want to say is six, so they recommend five. 

Um, so the same idea, it's it, which has to do with How they're multiplexing stuff and shit that I don't even understand. 

Sean Walker: Fair enough. 

Andy Leviss: yeah, but no, it's definitely, it's super powerful, especially when it's in a frame. Like I've done lots of Bolero in standalone mode, which basically makes it like free speak where it's all in the drop, in the, 

Sean Walker: Yeah, I've only used it in stand alone mode. I haven't used it in its 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, this was with like a full Artist 1024 frame, so we were doing like 50 packs of wireless. Um, yeah, it gets a little wacky because some of the stuff you're doing in the Bolero web UI and some of it you're doing in the director software, but once you figure out what lives where it makes sense and it's, it's, yeah, it's super powerful. 

Sean Walker: is that frame you were just talking about, is that comparable to a high port count Arcadia or is it the next one up in the ClearCom world to do the same kind of thing that you got going there? Or do you remember? I mean, I don't want to put you on 

Andy Leviss: not, I'm not up to date enough with the finesses of the, of the current ClearCom options to know how they break down. Like this is like, this is definitely like the top of the line, like the 1024 is the brand new one that has all the. Modular cards, like it now has a Dante card, uh, that you can use as 4 wire, Matty card, and apparently they're basically, it's the same card, it's just they're, they've reprogrammed an FPGA inside it to You know, which, which is nice because that means they only have to build one card and then 

Sean Walker: Yeah, dude. Sweet. 

Andy Leviss: flash the program that you buy. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, we got to, we got to buy a, um, uh, Oh God, I just, I just shit the bed right there, bro. We got to buy a frame. What did I just say it was called? 

Andy Leviss: Arcadia. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, we got to buy an Arcadia frame this year and, and a bunch of free speaking and mostly cause that's what people are calling us for specifically is free speak and what I can rent the most of here, I was just curious since I've, I've used both and dude, the Bolero was awesome. 

It was great. It was just different. Like once you learned it, you're like, Oh man, that's kind of the same thing, just a little different. And you know, you're pounding away at the, at the 

Andy Leviss: yeah, and the other thing I like about Bolero when I have my mixer hat on is, which I think some of the new FreeSpeak packs have, but it's got Bluetooth integrated. Uh, which means that I can use the Shox OpenCom like bone conduction headset so I can have my ears open on a corporate event, 

Sean Walker: Yeah, dude. Totally. 

Andy Leviss: which is cool and they'll actually, it'll also work in the other way. 

So if you need to get a remote caller into com or remote audio into the system some other way, you can connect the belt pack as a headset to a phone and then either, and you can use it two ways. You can use it one if you're on a wired headset, you can just take phone calls in the headset without having to switch to your Bluetooth buds all day, or you can send the audio back to a conference. 

Sean Walker: Oh, that's pretty sweet. So I don't need an LQ like you would in FreeSpeak World. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, you can just do that right off, right off of Bolero, back off Bluetooth, plug it into, and it'll charge off a USB port, so 

Sean Walker: of wish more people were asking me for that, because that seems like it's dope. 

Andy Leviss: yeah, it's, it's expensive though, but, 

Sean Walker: It's, I mean, without, without giving away the farm, it's not that much more expensive, bro. 

It's, you know, 

Andy Leviss: yeah, by the time you fully flesh it out when you're looking at Arcadia, it becomes more, it's like when you're looking 

Sean Walker: 10 or 15 percent more. It's not 100 percent more expensive. You know what I mean? Like it is more, but it's not like life changing difference and expensive. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, 

Sean Walker: uh, really, I own a sound company, so I gotta buy what people are asking for, not, not what I'm like, Oh, this is the nerdiest thing that I wanna use, it's like, what's everybody calling me for? 

They're all calling me for 

Dave Unger: Right, right. 

Sean Walker: that's what we're gonna get. 

Andy Leviss: So, uh, you've been hearing him chime in. We haven't actually introduced this 

Sean Walker: Oh, shit, sorry, Dave! 

Andy Leviss: so, yeah, uh, this week's guest is Dave Unger, who I, I was saying before we signed on, I feel like I've known Dave forever, both between, like, the ProSoundWeb lab and through, uh, relatively recent guest Andy Peters Facebook. 

Dave and I are both Common, uh, peanut gallery in his comments. 

Dave Unger: Right? 

Andy Leviss: so yeah, and Dave reached out recently and was like, Hey, you've had like a whole bunch of my friends on, like, if, you know, you ever 

Sean Walker: what the 

Andy Leviss: else to come on, 

Sean Walker: am I at? Ha ha 

Andy Leviss: pretty much. And I was like, Hey, what are you, what are you doing tomorrow? 

Dave Unger: Right, uh, yeah. 

Andy Leviss: So here is, so Dave, why don't you tell everybody a little about yourself 

Dave Unger: Well, um, I'm a front of house engineer and tour manager occasionally and, uh, I live in Chicago. Um, and, uh, I wear a lot of different hats, you know. I'm a Freelancer. I own a small sound company. I, uh, work in a bunch of different venues of different sizes, mostly sort of performing arts center type places here in Chicago. 

Um, and yeah, I tour as much as I can, but I mostly tour with, like, sort of world music artists, and the way they tend to tour, it's sort of a, you know, a one off kind of thing. Like, they come here on an album cycle, and then they go to Europe, and they use a European person. Um, that kind of thing, so, so yeah, um, and I, I also work in a church, and I do a fair amount of corporate stuff as well, A1 kind of, general session kind of stuff, so, you know, wearing a lot of hats, and, uh, 

Andy Leviss: as, as so many of us do? 

Dave Unger: that's right, 

Andy Leviss: Yeah. And you've got, so I'm, I'm assuming, 'cause I, I have been running around like crazy on that fashion show this week and haven't. I had time to dig deep into the Google, but I know one of the acts on your resume is Femi Kuti, which I'm assuming is a descendant of Fela. 

Dave Unger: Fela's oldest song, and he was the last, my last tour was, uh, was actually in 22 with him, and . We did a, a nice long run in the States, and then we did a run in Europe. Um, but we were, yeah, we, we did the Hollywood Bowl, we did, uh, um, for the Jazz Fest. And we did like, uh, uh, oh, some big festivals, uh, you know, um, oh, which I call it Bonnaroo. 

We did Bonnaroo, which. You know, it's pretty wild to go in there with a, you know, it's all pop music and whatnot to show up with a 13 piece, you know, African band that sounds like a cross between, you know, James Brown and Bob Marley to anybody who doesn't know, you know. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah. 

Dave Unger: I mix, I mix him really dry because there's so much going on. 

There's percussion, there's horns, there's background singers, there's Almost no effects. And so, like, the, 

Andy Leviss: Oh, wow. 

Dave Unger: the really, really ethereal pop music before us and after us, you know, we show up there and, and it just cuts. It's just like, everybody's head turns. Like, what is this clear, clean, you know, music that's so different than anything else? 

Um, so it's a lot 

Sean Walker: Dude, I bet that is super fun. Yeah, 

Dave Unger: Yeah. And in that case, at Bonnaroo, I rolled in, I had a SD 10 file. They had an SD 12. We could not convert it. Could not make it happen. It was something to do with firmware or whatever. Like, you know, the house guy who knew everything about DiGiCo could not make it work. So I had to, 40 inputs, had to dial it in on the fly, no sound check, because we're, you know, playing in the afternoon. 

You know, second stage. Made it happen, you know, I just threw everything to nominal and dialed in gain and high pass and, you know, went from there. And since I don't do effects anyway, you know, it's like So then it's 

Andy Leviss: That makes it easier for 

Dave Unger: And it was a bunch of K2 and K3, you know, so With a DiGiCo and a bunch of, 

Sean Walker: Before or after they started out the drivers in K3. 

Dave Unger: That's a good question. 

I think, I think it may have been before, but it sounded great to me, so 

Sean Walker: Okay. All right. Word. 

Andy Leviss: Let's 

Dave Unger: It was pretty 

Andy Leviss: I remember 

Dave Unger: in K3, 

Andy Leviss: And is, is Hollywood Bowl the one that's got like the really wacky, like, sound level restrictions because of the neighborhood it's in? 

Dave Unger: it does. And it's tricky. Um, but they have it dialed in really well. And the L Acoustics there are aimed really, really well. It is a low decibel limit, like a lot of Public outdoor venues in the, you know, especially in Europe, but also here like I've been to Pritzker Pavilion here in Chicago a bunch of times I've worked in there a bunch of times and their decibel limit is 94 Up front of house and they have a bunch of 

Andy Leviss: sneeze that loud. 

Dave Unger: Yeah, they have a bunch of you know, D& B, you know It's a gorgeous sounding system, but you can't actually use it. very tricky with a band like this that's so dynamic. And so, and I've always been there with loud 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, there's gotta, I was gonna say, there's gotta be almost that much coming off the stage on some days. 

Dave Unger: oh yeah. You know, and in New York it's the same if you do like Central Park or Celebrate Brooklyn or something like that. It's the same thing. Really low decibel limits. And they love to book these loud bands. 

It's like, it's a challenge. Yeah, I was with Femi in Paris at the Philharmonie, the Philharmonic Hall, and there the decibel limit was 92, I think. And it was so hard. And they had a ton of, you know, absolutely gorgeous sounding L Acoustics as well, of course, you know. In France they're going to have a bunch of brown boxes. 

And they had an SSL console, and I'd never even seen one in person, let alone tried to mix on one. And they have such weird logic to them, you know. So I had to figure out how to make those things work, you know, on the fly. You know, at least we had a 

Sean Walker: they sound so good, dude. 

Dave Unger: Oh, it sounds awesome. It sounds incredible. You know. 

Mm 

Sean Walker: had the same experience. I walked in and was like, Mixing this band, it was an L250 I think, and I was like, I am lost, and I looked at the house guy, I was like, uh, how do I, and he was like, alright, we're talking about groups instead of this, we're talking about stems instead of that, and blah blah blah, he kind of like walked through it, and I was like, okay, cool, and so I kind of got to it, I brought the band up, and I was like, that's where we're starting!? 

Like, that's where we're starting from? He's like, I know, right? 

Dave Unger: I basically high passed 

Sean Walker: sweet, but they are different to use, for sure. 

Dave Unger: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they have their own logic for sure. And they sound great. It's true. You know, if I'd had another few decibels to work with, it would have been a lot better. But, they kept yelling at 

Sean Walker: to prep a show file. 

Dave Unger: they kept yelling at me in French. And, uh, and I speak French, but I would kind of pretend I didn't understand what they were saying. 

Um, which I've done a bunch. I did that in Montreal, too. With another low decibel limit. It's just like, what? What? I don't understand what you're saying. You know, like, 

Andy Leviss: so, so funnily 

Dave Unger: how I want. 

Andy Leviss: this, The speaking French thing brings me back to Fashion Week for a second. So the show I did was at the Park Avenue Armory here in New York. And the last time I did Fashion Week in like 2009 2010 was also there. And I don't remember what designer it was, I don't remember the designer, but the designer, the lighting designer was French. And we're sitting there in rehearsal, and they're doing, and they're programming the whole thing. It was this whole weird concept where it was like literally just a line across the room of like 50 models, with a parking focused down on each of them. And like, the light would be dim on them, it would fade black on one, she would take this black smock off to reveal the outfit she was wearing, and the light would come up on her, and it would just go down the line. 

And as they're sitting there programming it, there's just like, you hear back and forth from like three corners of the venue, just angry, angry, angry French chattering and yelling over comm, but you're here for like five minutes straight. And then you hear dead silence, and you hear the light designers say Oh, I've just been told the lighting programmer does not speak French. 

I am sorry. Let's try again in English. And that was the last time I did fashion for 15 years. 

Dave Unger: that's hilarious. 

Sean Walker: Oh, that's awesome. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, and, and like during the show, like he's sitting there and he's like calling the lighting cues to the guy, which are literally just one down the line. It's fairly straightforward. He's calling them like he's a TV director, like saying go and snapping at the same time. Except he wasn't actually in sync with himself, let alone with what, so you'd be like, go, go. 

And the, and the programmer Bordop is like trying to figure out what to take the go on or just take it off himself and just in the middle of this like dead quiet, like ambient music fashion show, you just hear this quiet, angry French, You're fucking up! You're fucking up the whole show! To the point that 14 years later, I was loading in a venue over the summer, walked into a room and heard somebody in a French accent starting to say, you are fucking all up. 

And I'm like, Oh my God, fashion week 2010 at the armory. And he's like, yes, you were there. Cause it was like that infamous a moment. But, but anyway, speaking of French sent me off on that tangent. So thanks for coming along on that ride with me. Um, 

Dave Unger: that's actually kind of how I got into the scene of touring with African bands. I spoke a little French. And this band Bombino, um, They had a record produced by Dan Auerbach, and suddenly they're being booked at Coachella. And so their management was, you know, it was a friend on Facebook, and he was like, Hey, do I know anybody who does sound and speaks French? 

And I'm like, me, me, me. So, you know, ended up my second show with them was at Coachella. Yeah, moi. So. 

Sean Walker: like a double day rate. I'm in, dawg. One for sound, one for French. 

Dave Unger: That's right. That's it. 

Sean Walker: If only it was that easy, right? 

Dave Unger: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had kind of overestimated my abilities with French, so I know a lot more now, after spending a lot of time in vans with these guys. At airports and hotels and 

Sean Walker: Yeah, right. And now all the slang to go with it. 

Dave Unger: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Andy Leviss: that's better or worse than overestimating your ability to mix the band. I think it's 

Dave Unger: Haha, it's better, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it was an interesting way to get into, you know, that particular scene, you know, I became the guy who, the guy who could speak a little French and could tour these African dudes, so, you know, 

Sean Walker: Dude, how cool. 

Dave Unger: yeah, yeah, it's been a, it's been a fun ride, I'm, I'm tired of tour managing though, I'm, uh, I'm looking for my next tour to move, uh, move into the, being just a front of house guy, you 

Andy Leviss: to ship the white gloves. 

Dave Unger: that's it, that's it, I am, I'm getting fitted for white gloves, 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, we'll get a little, like, we'll get a little mini Pelican case made for them 

Dave Unger: that's 

Sean Walker: wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Did you say 

Dave Unger: need to be monogrammed, I do, yeah, I mean, it's small, 

Sean Walker: Yeah, yeah. Then those white gloves that you put on are already filthy, bro. that's just how, you know, like you're like, Oh man, I'm the boss. I'm the owner, the leader. This is going to be great. I'm going to be working twice as hard as everybody else. 

Got it. Okay, sweet. You know what I mean? Like, 

Dave Unger: it's true. It's very true. You know, especially these days where it's awfully hard to find, uh, good talent to, uh, to work for you. You know. 

Andy Leviss: I was gonna say, and you own your own company and then you also work for recent guest TC Furlong as well, you were 

Dave Unger: I do. Yeah, TC is, yeah, I've worked for him for years and years and years. Although I've only worked with him on a, you know, a few times. Um, but I've worked for his company for many years. Yeah. 

Andy Leviss: It's yeah, there's I feel like a lot of those like old school like named after a person companies It's like that like when I was in college in Boston like I worked for Terry Hanley Audio tons of times I worked with Terry like once Which was fun because the other guy who I did most of his gigs with was very particular about certain things in the exact Opposite way that Terry was 

Dave Unger: Oh, that's funny. TC as a company are very particular, which I really appreciate. Like, they're the folks who insisted to me the first time to use the word lectern instead of podium. And they had a whole lecture about how 

Andy Leviss: my kind of pet ants 

Dave Unger: I'm like, YES! You know, you stand behind a lectern, you stand on top of a podium. 

It's LATIN, for God's sake! You know? 

Sean Walker: Learn something new every day. All right. Thanks, 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, although I've learned recently that I forget whether it's Oxford or Merriam Webster's no longer backs us up because the whole descriptive versus prescriptive thing with dictionaries and like, everybody knows what you mean, it's just, they both mean the same thing now. 

Dave Unger: It's true. 

Andy Leviss: but, 

Sean Walker: man. Like 

Andy Leviss: but no, I'm with you, I keep the annotated photo in my phone to send to people. Which, 

Sean Walker: get it. But at the same time, like some of that stuff matters, like in this particular case, it may not be a big deal, but sometimes that makes a big difference where you're like. Lectern or Podium, if it were a very specific use case, it would make a difference, whereas like, in general corporate, we all know what you mean, bro, it's the frickin Podium, you know what I mean, but like, 

Dave Unger: the client says podium, I'll say podium, you know. But I start 

Sean Walker: Yeah, you're not gonna like, get snippy with the client about, it's a lectern, you know what I mean, like, great, way to get yourself fired over something that doesn't matter, you know what I mean? 

Andy Leviss: yeah, actually, actually, it's a Weber strip, not a Weber strip. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, 

Dave Unger: I had a boss who totally would say Weber strip. 

Andy Leviss: Well, well, it is. I mean, as long as you know the brand, but yeah, there's, I see people write it on Spex's Weber strip and I'm like, nope, it's Weber. There's an A in there. Although we had, 

Dave Unger: that used much as a generic anymore. 

Andy Leviss: yeah, here in like the New York theater world, it tends to still, it comes around a lot. Uh, I've, I've actually developed a habit recently of like when, when we have a debate about how a company is pronounced, I'll just straight up call their customer support line and like hear the first word on the, on the voicemail that picks up and then hang up and be like, see, it's Avium, not Avium. 

Dave Unger: It is? Wow. 

Andy Leviss: Apparently. Yeah. 

Sean Walker: Dude, I saw their new box at, 

Andy Leviss: Yeah. 

Sean Walker: at NAMM. Man, that new box is pretty fricking sweet, dude. And it's super easy to 

Andy Leviss: haven't seen it. 

Sean Walker: fucking squirrel side tangent, but it's dude, the new, did you say Avium or Avium? Avium, the new Avium box is fricking dope. It was like, I've been looking for our studio for a, a new headphone system. 

Cause the one we got is not as cool. Let's say, and the cat five options are the options we've got. Cause that's the infrastructure, dude. It's so nice to be able to like, look at it. I walked up and I was like, Oh man, twirled a couple knobs and was able to figure it out. I'm like, Oh man, the musicians could figure this out too. 

If I can figure it out, rather than like having to walk in and show everybody how the other headphone system works every single time. You're like, bro, we've all used this a hundred times. Can't figure it out. They're like, Oh, I don't know, man. You know what I mean? 

Andy Leviss: Ooh, it's got a screen 

Sean Walker: Dude, it is. And it's like two big knobs. 

Like it's like a giant pair of old iPods where you're like, just, just 

Andy Leviss: or like this podcast. 

Sean Walker: it was, it was super cool. I was stoked. 

Andy Leviss: Nice. 

Sean Walker: Now I just got to call those guys and get them to sponsor our podcast. Cause I said nice things. 

Dave Unger: There you go. There you go. 

Sean Walker: that's how that, if only that's how that worked. Right. 

Dave Unger: Right. 

Sean Walker: They're like, yeah, man, we don't, we don't care. 

Like, yeah, we got 9, 000 church installs. Don't 

Andy Leviss: Uh, yeah. So the other one recently was there's, there's, uh, the, the video converter company that's spelled A J A that there's always the debate you pronounce it like the Steely Dan out. Like, how do you, and so we were on a gig the other day and called, and they actually answered the phone as thank you for calling. 

Uh, Wait, was it Aja, A J A? I'm like, oh, they cover both bases. Although, although not Asia and not Aja. 

Dave Unger: Not uh ha. 

Andy Leviss: although also whoever answers their phone got a very weird call, because I did it expecting to get a voicemail menu like you do when you call Avion or most other companies, and just I would hang up. 

And an actual human answered the phone and said that and I didn't have like I was so caught off guard by an actual human answering a phone in 2024 that I kind of fumbled the phone and just hung up in a panic instead of saying, actually, you've already helped answer the question I had because we just want to know how to say your name correctly. 

So if by weird chance that woman who answers the phone there is listening, I'm sorry for that weird call last week. 

Dave Unger: Nice. 

Andy Leviss: And on that note, 

Sean Walker: No, I'm just kidding. Sorry. 

Andy Leviss: Uh, so before we got off on like four other tangents, we were talking about like sound limits, like particularly with a band that size, Dave, bringing us back on track. Like, do you have any particular tricks for navigating those with that many inputs? Or is it like a case by case kind of thing? 

Dave Unger: it's a case by case thing. I'm all about DCAs, basically. I'm about having a band DCA, and a vocal DCA, and a effects DCA. You know, and I mix everything at nominal, and then I can ride the whole band and the vocal, and, you know, fit myself into whatever the limit is. As long as that's possible with Stage volume. 

I mean, luckily these guys were pretty good with stage volume. But, still, you know, snares in a live space, for instance. Like, like the Philharmonic Hall in Paris I was talking about, had an RT 60 of a million. I mean, it's a really, really, really live space. And, um, 

Sean Walker: stage at like 110. 

Dave Unger: Exactly. Exactly, so if I could have mixed around it by 

Sean Walker: Do you employ Do you run into sound limits a lot? 

Dave Unger: I do, uh, especially in Europe, um, and in Canada. Um, but any big city, if you're outdoors pretty much, you're gonna run to it. Like I said, New York, um, Celebrate Brooklyn or, or Central Park, you know, the events there. They have low limits. Chicago outdoors, um, depending on where you're 

Sean Walker: that some of us 

Dave Unger: What's that? 

Sean Walker: Do you resort to some of the dirty tricks that the rest of us use where you bribe them with Coffee or booze or 

Dave Unger: I have. When I did Celebrate Brooklyn, I made friends with a house guy, and he just turned the attenuator down on the mic, feeding the decibel meter. 

Sean Walker: That's 

Dave Unger: And I was 

Andy Leviss: I may or may not know which, which, which person that was depending on when it was. 

Dave Unger: He had a big beard. don't remember his name. What's funny is I was with Bambino then, and the band after us was Femi Kuti, and somebody else was mixing them, and they were really, really, really, really late, and so the whole house crew was really upset, and that guy did not get any breaks on the decibel limit that day. 

Sean Walker: He also did not buy the house crew a round of cold beers to make sure that he got what he needed. You know what I mean? 

Dave Unger: Right? 

Andy Leviss: basis of the beard, I'm pretty sure I know exactly who that was. 

Dave Unger: Okay, he was a nice guy. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, that's, I, there's, I've had a few friends that have gone through the head position there over like the last decade or so. 

Dave Unger: Yeah, it was like 2015, 2014, something like that. So But yeah, 

Andy Leviss: I will not name the, name the guilty party to get them into trouble. 

Dave Unger: Right. 

Yeah, he definitely did me a favor that day. But I don't Then I've been in Canada before, where you'd think they're, you know, they're supposed to be polite for guys. And they are anything but polite about the decibel limit. And they're, uh, you know. And when they're averaging over time, and you have a band that plays ten minute songs, it's easy to get in trouble. 

And, and hit the limit, and then suddenly the next whole three songs have to be You know, super quiet and, you know, it's a tricky thing and it's, it's, it's frustrating, you know, when you want to just mix balls out rock and roll loud, but, um, 

Sean Walker: Or when you're like, man, I don't need to be ripping loud, but I do need like two or three more fricking DB. Like I just need another two inches, bro. You know what I mean? Like story of my 

Dave Unger: yeah, yeah, yeah, 

Sean Walker: more inches in this thing. Right? 

Dave Unger: that's it, 

Andy Leviss: Well, 

Sean Walker: I could, I could get there with like two more. 

Andy Leviss: Well, Dave, have you ever played Switzerland? Cause I know Ryan was posting the other day that like, they, they are like, it's like jail time, legally binding 

Dave Unger: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yep, exactly, that's, and that's true in parts of the EU, for sure, like, like at that Philharmonic gig, they were very seriously pissed at me, and like hanging over, they walked over and threw a big compressor on the back end, you know, just, you know, after they got tired of yelling at me and stuff, so, you know, 

Andy Leviss: it's better than turning it off altogether? 

Dave Unger: Right, right. 

Andy Leviss: Maybe? Depends on the day. 

Dave Unger: 000, it's a 5, 000 seat hall, you know, I mean, it's like, it was a big deal show, so 

Sean Walker: 000 seat haul and they just strapped a Dominator straight across your whole friggin thing? 

Dave Unger: oh my god, eh, 

Sean Walker: Is that what that was? That FX box that we used to use? That was just like, the hard limit that sounded like, sounded like it was horrible when you hit it hard? 

Dave Unger: It was, 

Andy Leviss: Crunchy, 

Dave Unger: I mean, but it was an SSL, so it sounded fine, but, you know, but yeah, you know. I, uh, I, uh, so I started in the industry in Michigan. I, uh, came up in the early, mid 90s, basically. And, uh, I had no idea what sound was. I was a, I was working as a cook. And, uh, I got fired from my cooking job. And I walked into a local bar where they had music on Friday and Saturday nights. 

And sat down to talk to my old buddy who was the house sound engineer. And I was, I was on unemployment, right? And, and I was looking for cash work so I didn't have to go off of unemployment. And, uh, and so my, you know, I asked my buddy, you know, Hey, so you know about any work I can do for cash so I can stay on the dole? 

And he's like, well, why don't you come down here every weekend and I'll teach you how to, how to mix. I'm like, oh, huh, I didn't know the difference between an amp and a speaker at that point in my life. Like, I didn't know what an SM58 was. I didn't know, didn't know how to recoil a cable, you know, and so I walked, you 

Sean Walker: That's okay. Andy doesn't know what an SM58 is either. He hasn't used it in a decade. 

Andy Leviss: I do know what it is, that's why I haven't used it in a I love you, Jason, if you're listening. 

Dave Unger: yeah, so he basically taught me a ton. 

Just on the Mackie 24x4 with the PV, you know, Black Widow speakers, you know, with all these bands from Detroit and Chicago, like really amazing bands would come up to this Northern Michigan club and play. It was great because they'd play a whole weekend. They'd sound check once, they'd tear down once, do, you know, so you could really dial them in. 

And um, and it was a great place to learn. And then, he also worked for this guy who had a regional sound company there in Michigan. And, you know, old school cat, who built all his own speakers, you know, still analog days, so. Um, he had a Peavey Mark VIII as his main front of house console, which, which was actually a really good sounding console, other than the fact it didn't have variable high pass filters. 

So, you know, we would have to cover up the Peavey logo with gaff tape. Just to make it, you know, just so when visiting engineers stepped up to it, they can be like, Oh, this doesn't meet my rider, you know, like PV. How dare you? You know, like, where's my Midas? You know? Um, but it was actually a great, great sounding board. 

And the PA he built was like a four way JBL front loaded system. And, you know, it's a little underpowered compared to today, but it sounded great. Um, and so, so that's Working for that sound company is where I learned tons more stuff. That was essentially my, you know, my version of going to school. Um, he, uh, that guy, this guy Bob Farmer, he, uh, you know, he made all his own cables and he, you know, he was very, very old school. 

But, you know, he taught me everything I 

Andy Leviss: Pin 2 or Pin 3? 

Dave Unger: What's that? 

Andy Leviss: I said Pin 2 or Pin 3? 

Dave Unger: Right, right. 

Andy Leviss: was that after that had been settled? 

Dave Unger: Uh, you know, I I think it's after that it was subtle, but yeah, but he was, he was like doing multi pin, you know, cables and all kinds of stuff, so, you know, it was, it was fun, and I learned how to rig, and I learned, you know, about electrical, you know, all the, the needed information, you know, and, and basically he would, he didn't want to mix, we'd be doing some festival, and he'd like just make sure the PA was up, and then he'd wander off, and I, you know, got to You know, spend a lot of time out in front of house. 

Um, so that's, that's really where my skills all came from and then I decided to move to Chicago because I wanted to work, you know, everything was seasonal in Michigan, you know, lots of festivals in the summer, but you know, I wanted to work all the time and not at a bar, you know. It was a little performing arts center too, that, that, there, that I worked at. 

But, it was like, now I'm gonna go move to Chicago. And, the first week I got here, I worked at, I started working at DB Sound. And, um, and at the, this, this place, the Old Town School of Folk Music, where I'm at now. Which is sort of my main house gig. It's a 450 cap room. Um, and it's great. It's the deadest room on the planet. 

And we've got a proprietary rig in there that I can't wait. We're soon going to get DNB and I can't wait. Um, but it sounds, you know, the proprietary rig, it's all Rinkis Heinz components. That sounds It sounds good. I tell visiting engineers don't look at the horns. They're out of boxes. And the, the low, the low mids are an 18 surrounded by the high mids are little eights. 

And then the, the highs are, are horns out of boxes. And it's just like, it looks like something that's 1970s, you know, audio file, you know, home stereo, you know, blown up. Um, so it, it actually doesn't sound bad, but. It's not going to sound, it doesn't sound as good as the you know, D& B is going to sound when 

Sean Walker: Yo man, you paint that horn like a bright pink or purple or something, all the EDM kids will love that shit. They'll pay triple for it. 

Dave Unger: Yeah, right, like, uh, Void or something like that, you 

Andy Leviss: will call it Function Half. 

Dave Unger: Function. 

Sean Walker: Right? Totally. that's where I was going. 

Andy Leviss: If I'm, I was there with you, some TurboSound, some FunctionOne. 

Sean Walker: up! 

Dave Unger: it, that's it, yeah, yeah, those EDM 

Andy Leviss: there was like a whole period in like Broadway where like, yeah, raw horns were like a huge thing. Um, yeah, like, like the original Phantom designs, like all that Martin Levin, like he was big on that. And depending on what you're trying to do with it, it can work really well. You just gotta work within the limits of what you can do with it. 

Dave Unger: Right. And, you know, this venue 

Andy Leviss: like, 

Dave Unger: Go ahead. 

Andy Leviss: Oh, no, I was gonna say, there's like, there's, I don't think this ever made it into the rock world, but a thing that was like, big in theater touring for a while, up to and including like, the most, one of the more recent tours of Chicago that just closed a few years ago was bullet tweeters. 

Like, did that ever make it into 

Dave Unger: Oh, yeah. Yeah, 

Andy Leviss: where you would, it was literally just a tweeter, no horn, nothing, on like a little like, K& M, like clamp arm on the top of the speaker tower. That would just put that little bit of extra high end to like the far, far corners of the theater. And it's one of those, you look at it and it's like, this seems batshit crazy. 

And you'd listen to it and you'd be like, that sounds terrible right here. But then you put it on the tower and like, you know, you'd go up to the back corner and listen to have somebody like pan it up to you and you're like, holy shit, that just did that little. It was needed. 

Dave Unger: Right. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, yeah, it was. 

Sean Walker: word. 

Andy Leviss: Oh, sorry, but you were starting to say something else and then I went off on 

Dave Unger: Oh, well, just, it 

Andy Leviss: tangent. 

Dave Unger: In this venue, like, when they initially designed it You know, it's, it's a folk music school, so they assumed everybody who was going to play there was going to be, you know, folk music. But, you know, they book everybody in there. It's all kinds of stuff. It's rock and roll. It's, it's, you know, lots of sort of Americana, alt country kind of stuff, like, and a lot of world music. 

So, I mean, it made sense when they installed it, considering what they thought it was going to be. But, you know, and it, it works okay, but I am definitely looking forward to, you know, To, to D& B. And, uh, you know, it'll make life easier there, for sure. Especially for the visiting engineers. Cause, you know, like, I know the system really well in this room. 

Um, but other people walk in and they're just like, How do I, what? What? It doesn't, this doesn't sound modern at all, you know? Like, how do I, how do I make things sound great in here? You know? So. 

Sean Walker: Totally. 

Dave Unger: Yeah, it's, so that's a cool venue I work at and I'm at a, it's a little place called Space that's in Evanston that's got a nice Meyer rig in there and gets some decent touring 

Andy Leviss: Torn all the brands. 

Dave Unger: Yep, I, I, I love Meyer, um, it's, uh, it's one of the reasons I like to work for TC Furlong, it's, they're a Meyer house, so, uh, um, but, uh. And then I have this crazy church gig as well. Um, it's a gospel church, you know, big, huge venue. And it's, uh, I am, I am the only white guy in the room. And, uh, and it's pretty wild to be invited into that. 

You know, like the, the, the pastor there is this guy named Smoky Norful. And if, if you ask, if I tell anybody who's African American and grew up in the church, Where I work, they say, you work for Smoky Norful? Like, oh, it's like I, you know, it's like saying you work for, you know, like it's Al Green or something. 

Like he's got it. He's a Grammy award winning guy. Like, he's a huge deal. And, nobody, like, I say that to any, anybody who looks like us, and they're like, who? That's a funny name, you know? But it's kind of cool, it's like, it's very modern gospel music. It sounds like R& B, basically, you know, like modern R& B. 

And I mostly do the 

Sean Walker: Dude, how fun. 

Dave Unger: there. And it's, and it's, it's cool to be invited in. Like, I'm not a religious person at all. You know? But it's cool to be in the room with people that are, you know. It's a, it's a big part of people's lives and, you know, it wasn't, it, I don't know, it, it, it's a, and it's a cool gig because I can go and do that in the morning and then I can work a club gig at night, um, so, 

Sean Walker: Totally. Double dippin I love it. 

Dave Unger: yeah, exactly, so it makes for a 

Sean Walker: What are you, what are you doing for the broadcast over there? What kind of, what kind of rig are you using for 

Dave Unger: Uh, yeah, well they've got an Allen and Heath, um, D Live at Front of House and then they've GLD, I think, in broadcast. Yeah, it's a GLD. And then they've got, it's all Dante. Um, and they've got a, they've got a Waves server. Um, so there's, you know, all kinds of fun stuff you can do. And we're recording to, um, we're recording to Logic. 

And I'm not exactly sure what, you know, what his output is. Um, but, but it's cool. You know, I mean, you know, using the Waves 

Sean Walker: you, you got a console with a WAVES server to make the broadcast mix. 

Dave Unger: Right. Exactly. So that's where I'm at. You know, and it just, 

Sean Walker: you in a separate room, or are you having to do that from the main thing? Yeah, you're a separate room? 

Dave Unger: Separate room. So 

Sean Walker: Well, that makes it easier. 

Dave Unger: just throw in my cans and, you know, and uh, it's, it's cool. And I've gotten to the point where I really know what they like it to sound like. 

Um, 

Sean Walker: Yeah, totally. 

Dave Unger: you know, which took a while, you know. They had to, like, no, no, we want more bass than that. You know, turn those drums up, come on, you know, stuff like that. 

Sean Walker: Totally. 

Dave Unger: It's just an aesthetic thing. Um, but it's cool because I've never been much of a studio guy. I've almost always been a live guy. Um, so, so spending time in a studio type environment. 

I mean this was one of those like COVID was just ending, right? We're just starting to come back. But like, corporate world wasn't quite back yet, and music world was sort of catching up. So when I was able to find this church gig, it was like, it was, it was a lifesaver. It's cool. 

Sean Walker: Oh, yeah, dude. Totally. Totally. Man, as somebody who, who came, I was a studio guy that turned into a live guy and still do some studio work. I've been having to unstudio my live mixes. You know what I mean? 

Dave Unger: Ah, 

Sean Walker: very different. You know, do you, do you find yourself doing things differently to inputs on your broadcast than you would live? 

Dave Unger: Oh yeah. Like, you know, live, I'm a cut only kind of guy for the most, you know, for, for, you know, in general. Like, like if I can, if I wanna make something sound right. It's generally with cuts and, and of course in a studio you don't have to worry, worry about feedback, so you 

Sean Walker: Nah, bro. I'm a booster. Yeah. Oh, totally. 

Dave Unger: Um, and, uh, 

Sean Walker: in the studio, like, you 

Dave Unger: in the 

Sean Walker: live, I got to cut the boost down to like a dull roar. You know what I mean? But dude, it's, it's crazy. The difference 

Dave Unger: you can really, yeah, you can really do some extreme, extreme EQing and, you know, there's some, there's some, definitely some fun Waves plugins that I would never use in a live situation, you know, or there's like, you know, putting gates on everything, you know, just to try and tighten up, tighten up, tighten up, you know, that's something I would never do live, you 

Sean Walker: Totally. And after rehearsal, you can get some virtual playback going, so you can really dial some of that stuff in tighter. You know what I mean? And really have it happening, which is nice. 

Dave Unger: Absolutely. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, it's been cool. Um, and, you know, lots more use of groups and stuff like that than I necessarily do live. You know, it depends, but, um, I do like subgroups on some consoles and in some situations live. But, um, if I have enough aux, you know, whatever they call it on whatever console. 

But, um But, yeah, uh, it's been a good learning experience, and, uh, yeah, so, my, uh, my company, I, like I said, it's real small, it's speakers on a stick only, my, my motto is that if I can't fit it in my car, I don't want to own it. I'll rent it, you know, but I don't want to own it, um, cause the return on investment is fantastic on a pair of K 12s, right? 

Sean Walker: Shit. Yeah, it is. 

Dave Unger: or like, or like, uh, you know, for years, for a couple years now, my main console has been a TouchMix, you know, a QSC TouchMix. And why not? 16 inputs, you got all the EQ you might want, it's got gates, it's got comps, you know, the only thing it doesn't have that I would like is a Matrix, you know, and, uh, um, but it's, you know. 

That's my whole philosophy is, is, is just like keep it small, keep it simple, you know, and I'm slowly upgrading, you know, like I don't want to, you know, would I love to own a line array of, you know, of a major brand, would I love to own 

Andy Leviss: No, you'd love to have ready access to one. You wouldn't 

Sean Walker: Yeah. You'd love your friend. It's like...line arrays are like swimming pools, bro. You love it when your friends own one, but if you can not have to own one, you can just go borrow it from your buddy. That's the way to do it. 

Andy Leviss: I  

think we just found a new sticker we gotta get 

Sean Walker: Oh, totally dude. Totally. Cause let me, as somebody who owns both. 

12 inch utility speakers like a K 12 or we've got the RCF NX32s right now, which 

Dave Unger: Yeah, yeah. 

Sean Walker: love. They're like little cash machines. You just carry those things around and they print money for you. You know what I mean? Just like print, print, print, print, print all day long. Print, print, print, print, print. 

Dave Unger: I have the, 

Sean Walker: you get a line array and you gotta do those size shows. What? Sorry. 

Dave Unger: Oh, I said I have the EV12 and a 

Sean Walker: Sure, man. Yeah. Same kind of thing though. But just print, print, print all day long. You know what I mean? And then you get a line array and you get all the other stuff that has to go with it and you're like, Well, I mean, the check is larger, but the profit margin is not larger. 

You know what I mean? It does not scale with the profit margin. So like, 

Dave Unger: Right. 

Sean Walker: you know, a few rentals literally pays for a A K 12 or an NX 32 or whatever, you know what I mean? You've literally paid this box off and it's just paying itself off every couple rentals, every time it goes out whereas like a liner where you're like, alright, so 20 to 50 to 100 rentals later this thing will pay itself off and then I can think about more and then I, like, shoot me in the face, bro. 

Like, just shoot me in 

Dave Unger: Yeah, yeah. One, one crazy one for me is RF. Like, RF is so expensive. It's so crazy, you know? Like, 

Andy Leviss: And then the FCC changes the rules. 

Dave Unger: right, right, right. 

Andy Leviss: everybody's like, no, it costs so much to rent, I want to buy, and it's like, no, you don't. 

Dave Unger: You don't want to own that, you know? Like, I don't know, Axiant should be around for a while, I would guess. But, you know, I feel, 

Andy Leviss: Go outside, turn around three times, spit curse and all the things. 

Dave Unger: But, you know, like, like I have, I have ULXD, because I can't imagine going lower than that, you know, 

Sean Walker: dude, that's killer box. 

Dave Unger: it's there, it's fine, it's usable even in New York or Chicago or whatever, you know, depending on your band, but, um, but it's like, I would love Axiant, but it's just so cost prohibitive, you know, like, I don't know, if I was doing more corporate stuff, but It's, it's fine. 

It, you know, as long as, like I did this choir show a couple years ago where There's 12, no, 14 people and everybody had their own, their own, uh, excuse me, 58 ULXD G50 and we were in downtown Chicago and I literally could not do 12 channels of ULXD downtown at all. Like it just was not possible, you know. 

I'm like, you know what, those, you know, the uh, the choir, we're going to use wired mics, and then people can come up and use the, you know, wireless for solos, but, you know, that's the only way to make it work, but, but yeah, yeah, it's uh, one nice thing about being in Chicago is being close to Shure, actually, so, I have a, I have a pretty good relationship with people over there. 

I've been able to do some, some beta testing that I can't talk about. 

Sean Walker: You should get a homie deal, dude, for being a neighbor. You should be like, where's the neighbor deal, dawg? 

Andy Leviss: He just said he's got secret microphones he can't tell us 

Sean Walker: you go. Perfect. I like it. I like it. Yeah. 

Dave Unger: Yeah, yeah, it's been You know, I took off on tour with some mics that had no labels on them whatsoever. Like, they didn't have a name. They came straight out of the lab. You know, 

Andy Leviss: I, I, I did a, I helped Leo Pysak out with a wedding gig this summer and he in, in his kit had one that he's like, I'm not, this might be what they just came out with. This might be the next thing. I'm not entirely sure. I don't know what it is. Part of it's 3D printed. It sounds amazing. 

Dave Unger: Right, exactly. 

Andy Leviss: I hope we're not getting you and Leo in trouble now. 

Dave Unger: I think I'm being vague enough to be okay with the NDA. 

But it's kind of cool, you know. 

Sean Walker: But it is nice to know that you think Axiant will be around for a while, even with the new, you know, stealth hotness coming in, cause like, all of us went deep, like, elbows deep into Axiant when it came out, and it still are, cause it's just the, it's the tool that all our clients are asking for, you know what I mean? 

Dave Unger: Well, it's the one you know you can count on, you know. On my rider, I'm not gonna, you know, I, I I was, I would, I would okay a ULXD, but not happily, you know, and anything else would just be, you'd be surprised how many of these, the sort of performing arts center type venues would be like, oh, well, what we have is a UHFR, you know, I'm like, well, then you're going to rent me an Axion. 

You know exactly , but you know, you're gonna rent me an axion or a, you know, you know, like Steve, because I am not trust trusting A-U-H-F-R. I'm sorry, , but 

Andy Leviss: They were great in their time, they're just, they're a little old, but 

Dave Unger: little bit, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Andy Leviss: they're still out there. I still keep seeing lots of people, like, I run Workbench 6 primarily because 7 doesn't support the UHFR anymore. 

Dave Unger: Oh wow. Okay. I don't really like 

Andy Leviss: know other people running 6 because 7 only has dark mode, so for the summer you have to switch over to 6 when you're doing outdoor gigs. 

Dave Unger: I 

Sean Walker: Dude, I'm on 6 because I could not get 

Dave Unger: of 7. I don't like the way it feels. I don't like the 

Sean Walker: I couldn't get it to connect to the frickin network. I don't know if that makes me a ding dong, bro, but like, I must be just not that smart. Like, load 6, no problems. ULXD, Axiant, PSM1000, it all shows up, doesn't care, nothing to change, it's all happy. Try to load 7, nothing. 

Can't, there's no network setting I can get to make 7 work for me. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, the last time I used it, there was a little bit of a learning curve, and I don't even remember what I tripped over. They've definitely made some improvements, and I'll say, a very old friend is the product manager for that, so if he's listening, I know he's doing some hard work to try and freshen it up and do some cool things with it. 

So I'm optimistic to see where it's going with that particular person in charge. 

Sean Walker: Me too, because I got enough things to learn how to network into the new network manager thing or thing or Fucking fuck that doesn't work is not the things I got to learn right now You don't I mean like six is working six is where I'm staying until seven is like turnkey like six You know, I mean, 

Dave Unger: Right. 

Andy Leviss: I mean, I just Finally moved past Windows 98, so I feel it. 

Sean Walker: yeah, right I mean 

Andy Leviss: not quite that bad, but like in the Broadway world, it was like we were pushing like XP along like as long as we, I think we skipped Win 7 almost entirely in the Broadway world and then eventually went kicking and screaming into 10. So I feel that. 

Sean Walker: I mean to be fair to Shure and I love Shure I've got more Shure microphones that In our company than anything else. Right. So I'm not dogging on, but like, to be fair to this six, seven thing, I am still on a 2012 MacBook pro with Catalina. So it's probably just like, yo, dog, you and your old ass computer are just, you're out, dog. 

You're out. You know what I mean? Get something that was made in this decade. 

Andy Leviss: That, that, 

Sean Walker: It may be 

Andy Leviss: be a relevant factor. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, it may be me and not sure at all 

Dave Unger: Yeah, that sounds about right. I have a late 2015 MacBook Pro because, you know, everybody loves them. This 

Sean Walker: cheap. 

Dave Unger: one has HDMI out, the one I'm talking about right now, and two actual USB ports. Ports. You know, USB 

Andy Leviss: Intel one sitting on the shelf, which is the first one that when I've upgraded, I haven't sold or traded in was still all USB C as I unfortunately gave away the full size ports in the HDMI a while ago, but yeah, last year was the year of finally doing the Apple silicone. Silicon, excuse me, Apple Silicon, it's, oh, it's, it's, I went to the 13 inch air, I little bit wish I had held out till the 15 inch air came out a couple months later, I knew it was coming, but also, totally stupid reasons, I had a, a business like Delta Card that had a intro offered that that was gonna push me over right at the tail end of the deadline to earn like a hundred or whatever thousand bonus miles. 

So I was like, you know what, get them the 13, the 13 will be great. 

Sean Walker: There you go, 

Andy Leviss: And then I just always make sure, well, I always make sure they rent me a large external monitor and I'm good to go. 

Sean Walker: There you go. I'm so far behind. Everything I've got is still like 2012, 2013 MacBook Pros because I've just look at them go, dude, I can't put it on a line item in an invoice. As easily as PA or something. You know what I mean? 

Dave Unger: Right, right, right. Yep. 

Andy Leviss: I had a deep conversation with my accountant about like, okay, so explain like depreciable versus not to me with all these purchases the last couple of years, 

Dave Unger: huh. 

Andy Leviss: Which, uh, a teaser, I'm not sure exactly when, but we're gonna, we're having my, my now retired accountant on at some point in the future to, to dig into 

Sean Walker: dude. Cool. 

Andy Leviss: some audio tech stuff and 

Sean Walker: that's on brand nerdery for my ass. I'm ready for that, 

Dave Unger: Oh, 

Andy Leviss: that's, that's something we're working on, on coming up that I'll tease for folks. Um, I'm not, probably not, not necessarily in time for, uh, the, the imminent tax season this year, but we'll at least let you know what you screwed up so you can unscrew it for next year. 

Sean Walker: Thanks a lot, Andy. 

Dave Unger: Thankfully, I 

Sean Walker: a dollar short every time, 

Andy Leviss: Accountants are busy right now and he's in the middle of 

Dave Unger: They're pretty busy, yeah. 

Andy Leviss: practice so he's been a little hard to get a hold of, but I talked to him last week and he's down as soon as we can figure out when. 

Um, but yeah, Dave, before we wrap up, we should do, we brought out some of the classic questions last time around and I think Yeah, I think we should bring those back more often, so uh, if you could go back in time and tell young Dave some piece of advice that you know now that you wish you knew then, what would it be? 

Dave Unger: Oh, uh, find a different career. No. Um, I don't know, um, uh, lift with your, lift with your knee, you know. Don't lift with your back. How about that? 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, you've only got one body. Ah, 

Dave Unger: You've only got one body. You're gonna be 51 someday and really regret all that. Jumping off of stages. 

Andy Leviss: were all choices I made. Yep, 

I was gonna say, I'm, yeah, 42 and I'm not as young as I used to be. Bye. Any means. 

Sean Walker: Dude, totally. I remember clearly the day in the truck where I was going to double stack the subs and I was like, can I get a hand on this? You know what I mean? Where you were like, 

Dave Unger: right. 

Sean Walker: And then you were like, I'm gonna need a friend on this one. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, it was about, it was about four and a half or five years ago when I got a cold, I had a cough, and I realized that I was, I can cough hard enough to throw my back up for a week years old, that I was like, oh boy. Upside, upside, at a certain point those prescriptions are the same. 

Sean Walker: Yeah. 

Andy Leviss: They're like, here, just take some codeine, it'll solve it all. Like, here's a recipe for purple drink if you need 

Sean Walker: Yeah. Right. Totally. 

Andy Leviss: so speaking of crazy drink concoctions, okay, the other question, uh, we're coming to visit you in Chicago, uh, where we eatin 

Dave Unger: Oh wow. Um, 

Andy Leviss: And you're lucky you're not our first Chicago guest, so I'm not gonna ask the New Yorker to give you shit about pizza, because I've 

Dave Unger: Yeah, well I heard you talk to TC about the pizza situation, and uh, I had my 

Andy Leviss: I mean, I felt validated that the one I like is the one TC liked too, so. 

Dave Unger: No, and it's a good one. I think you said Pequod's, right? Is that right? Does that recall? Yeah, and that's, that's, that's good. Um, I'm all about what's called, uh, uh, tavern pizza here. I can't remember if he, if that even came up, but it's its own thing. It's 

Andy Leviss: like I've, 

Sean Walker: Do you tell, do tell, talk dirty. 

Dave Unger: well, it's, it's flat, it's, it's, uh, crackery, it's kind of greasy, and you literally have to go to the north side to some, to some tavern and they, they make them. 

They cut them in squares. For some reason, that's the Midwestern thing. And it's both greasy and crackery at the same time. Um, but I would take 

Andy Leviss: That's it. Episode 300, Chicago. 

Dave Unger: That's right, that's right. I live in this crazy neighborhood here in Chicago that's like the most diverse neighborhood in the country. It's kind of like Queens, but um, even, like, even more diverse because it's super compact. 

It's like parts of Queens. Um And, uh, people, people around here are from all over the world. Literally. And, um, and so we have these incredible restaurants. Super cheap, like, Excuse me. Super, uh, interesting varieties of stuff. We have way more Mexican food than you all have in New York, that's for sure. Um, and, 

Andy Leviss: impressive. 

Dave Unger: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like really super, like, like Very regional, specific types of Mexican food. 

Um, um, so we all have favorites of like, this is the place I go to for al pastor, but if you want carne asada, go to this other one, because they're better, and stuff like that. But, but all kinds of stuff, you know. I went to this Kazakhstani restaurant the other day that's open super late. It's like, it's open at like, midnight. 

Um, or one, or something like that. And, and like What all this, like, great soup and bread and like So anyway, I would, I would take you around my neighborhood if, uh, if y'all came to Chicago. 

Andy Leviss: Oh man, you're, you're making me nostalgic. There used to be in, in Hell's Kitchen, like, on 9th Avenue in the 50s here in New York, there was an Afghan, uh, like, Uyghur kebab place that was at one point open 24 hours. And I remember, like, coming off a gig at, like, midnight and, like, rolling in there at 2 a. 

m. and getting, like, fresh, like, steaming hot, like, on the big metal skewer that looks like a sword 

Sean Walker: yeah, dude. Sword kebabs? 

Andy Leviss: like making the mistake of like eating it off the skewer and not realizing how hot the skewer 

Dave Unger: haha, 

Andy Leviss: till it touched the corner of my lips. And it was like, Oh, whoa. 

Dave Unger: my favorite 

Sean Walker: better than Domino's, bro. 

Andy Leviss: absolutely. 

Sean Walker: Yeah. 

Dave Unger: place is also open super late, you know, that's the best, this stuff is 

Sean Walker: Bro, sword skewers? That's Awesome. 

Andy Leviss: No, that I'll, I'll throw, I'll throw in one other, one other Manhattan pro tip for late night is there is a Desi deli on 10th and like 52nd ish. is a 24 hour Indian deli that was literally started by cab drivers who wanted like when they were switching their shift at like 2 in the morning, wanted real food, real food. 

So it's like it's legit Indian that like you can, you know, when you're sitting at the bar like 1am in that last hour, you're like, I need food. You can walk two blocks down from the whiskey bar and 

Dave Unger: uh huh, uh huh. 

Andy Leviss: get like some nice like still steaming hot Indian food and it's, it's fantastic. 

Dave Unger: I've never had a hard time finding 

Sean Walker: All right. I'm coming to Chicago for Tavern Pizza, bro. 

Dave Unger: But I've never had a hard time finding late, late night food in New York. There's, you know, always deli to be had or 

Andy Leviss: it's some, sometimes, yeah, sometimes it gets a little harder post, post pandemic, but 

Dave Unger: Oh, really? Okay, what's that here? 

Andy Leviss: A little bit, some of the, some of the, some of the really good places closed, but there's enough is open back up now. Actually, that same neighborhood, the whiskey bar that I'm a regular at, there's a deli there that my lighting designer friend, Herrick, insists is the single best bacon, egg, and cheese in all of Manhattan. 

And 

Dave Unger: okay. 

Andy Leviss: don't know that he's wrong. It's pretty solid. They're one of those places that, like, You walk in the wrong time of morning at like about 3. 30, 4 a. m. and there's that period where you try and order anything on the grill and they're like, can't for another hour because the entire grill is covered with bacon to get ready for the morning rush. 

Dave Unger: Oh, uh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

Andy Leviss: really cool, like, finally meeting you, you know, at least virtually face to face after, yeah, knowing your name online for so long, and I'm, 

Dave Unger: Right on. 

Andy Leviss: glad you reached out and said hey, and yeah, if there's other folks out there listening, they're like, I've got cool stories, I want to come on, like, tell us, like, 

Sean Walker: Yeah. We're friendly. Mostly. 

Andy Leviss: yeah, we're hustling every week to, like, find folks, and like, you, y'all get tired of hearing of all my friends, so yeah, folks have cool stories, like, shoot us an email, uh, Signal 2 Noise, the number 2, so Signal, Signal. 

Signal. Number two noise at prosoundweb. com and say, Hey, let us know, let us know what you got. And we might call you and be like, Hey, what are you doing tomorrow? 

Sean Walker: Yeah. Yeah. what's up. Nice to meet you, Dave. Thanks for hanging out and partying, 

Dave Unger: Yeah, absolutely. Nice to meet you both. 

Sean Walker: for Tavern Pizza, bro. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah. Well, I'm also, I'm going to throw a link in the show notes. Cause I'm pretty sure Kenji on Serious Eats did like a whole deep dive into both the history of tavern pizza. And like, if you're nerdy enough to like want to make it at home, 

Dave Unger: Ah, 

Andy Leviss: recreate it. 

So we'll, I'll link 

Dave Unger: not Detroit pizza. Detroit pizza, I think, is the height of all pizza, personally. It's 

Andy Leviss: pretty solid. That's that, which, which is why, which is why we like the Chicago place. We do. Cause they're almost Detroit. Like 

Dave Unger: almost Detroit. Pequod's is 

Sean Walker: I'm not, 

Andy Leviss: Yeah. 

Sean Walker: I'm not hip to this Detroit thing. Are we on a pizza tour right now? Are we starting a pizza world tour, bro? 

Andy Leviss: right. Well, so, so Detroit pizza, similar to Chicago in that it's like a vaguely deep dish, but it's, it's, they bake it in like the little like metal part tins, like they would use in the car factories. So it's a little square that's like, you know, maybe like. like four by eights, five by 10 inches rectangle. 

And it's like that thick black metal. So they put, it's like maybe halfway up the tin is dough. And then it's, they specifically use Wisconsin brick cheese on the top and they layer it the rest of the way up. So it's got tons of cheese and because it's that really dark metal, it gets crazy hot and caramelizes the edge. 

So half of the crust is just caramelized cheese. 

Sean Walker: Yum! I'm 

Andy Leviss: then, and then it's the upside down with like the cheese on the bottom and the sauce on top. Um, if anybody's going through New York, down on 23rd, there's a place called Lions and Tigers and Squares, 

Sean Walker: Oh my. 

Andy Leviss: which is not only one of the best names for a pizza place ever, but does, like, Detroit style, uh, 

Dave Unger: Michigan native, I feel drawn to that immediately. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, yeah, I can, I can highly recommend the pepperoni pizza there. Um, yeah. Well, now that we've made everybody hungry, myself included, I'm gonna go get a late lunch. 

Sean Walker: Yeah dawg. 

Andy Leviss: so 

Dave Unger: think I have time to eat before load in, so 

Sean Walker: Nice. Dave, thanks for ripping. Good to see everybody else as always. Thank you to Allen and Heath and RCF for rocking with us. We appreciate you guys big time. We'll catch you guys on the next one. That's the pod.

Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green

Andy Leviss: What's up, everybody? Wow. And we've already got something for the blooper reel. Love it. <Laughter from everybody>

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