243. A Deep Dive Into Mixing Corporate Events

Many of us spend tons of time talking about things like crafting the perfect kick drum or guitar or lead vocal, but in Episode 243, we focus the podcast on another important but less recognized set of “money” inputs — corporate event vocals.

In part one of a two-part deep dive into mixing corporate events, Andy and Sean bring together a collection of top A1s in the business — Aram Piligian, Brian Maddox, and Michael Curtis — to talk about all things input chain. They discuss types of lavalier mics and where to mount them, placement and pattern of lectern microphones, and peel back the curtain on the processing tricks and tips that can help to make sure the message gets across clearly in a deceptively high-pressure field of live audio where literally all of the money sometimes rides on a single, unaccompanied input. This episode is sponsored by Allen & Heath and RCF.

In part two next week, focus turns to the output side of the corporate event signal chain, with a look at the differences between the live in-room sound and recording or streaming feeds as well as strategies for managing them all from one console at the same time!

Links:
Episode 151: Brian Maddox & The Next Generation Of Audio Professionals
Episode 155, Part 1: Aram Piligian On The A2 Role In Corporate Audio
Episode 179: FOH Mixer, Systems Engineer & Audio Educator Michael Curtis
Episode 227: Events Mix Engineer Pete Wiejaczka
Episode 243 Transcript

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Transcript

Episode 243 - Tips and Tricks for Mixing Corporate Events

Note: This is an automatically generated transcript, so there might be mistakes--if you have any notes or feedback on it, please send them to us at signal2noise@prosoundweb.com so we can improve the transcripts for those who use them!

Voiceover: You’re listening to Signal to Noise, part of the ProSoundWeb podcast network, proudly brought to you this week by the following sponsors:

Allen & Heath, introducing their new CQ series, a trio of compact digital mixers for musicians, bands, audio engineers, home producers, small venues, and installers that puts ease of use and speed of setup at the heart of the user experience.

RCF, who has just unveiled their new TT+ Audio brand, including the high performance GTX series line arrays and the GTS29 subwoofer. Be sure to check it out at rcf-usa.com. That's rcf-usa.com.

Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green


Andy Leviss: Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Signal to Noise. I'm your host, Andy Leviss. Back with me after his crazy week away from us last week is uh, my co host, the ever present, except for last week, Sean Walker. What's up, Sean? 

Sean Walker: I'm partying, 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, you're partying 

Sean Walker: drinking coffee at oDark30 and then trying to figure out paperwork, as always. 

Andy Leviss: I was gonna say, I just got really concerned because I looked at my laptop clock and it's still in your time zone because that's where I was the last few days and I was... 

Sean Walker: shoot me in the face, bro. Thanks for the corporate hours for podcasting. 

Andy Leviss: uh, yeah, we're gonna be talking corporate stuff on that note. But uh, speaking of corporatey things, a little bit of housekeeping I want to throw out at the top of the episode again, because we'd been forgetting to do it for a while, is one, uh, if y'all are listening on a podcast app like Apple Podcasts, or, uh, you know, Overcast or any of those, hit it up, even right now while you're listening, uh, you know, share it with any friends you think would enjoy the show. 

And if you're enjoying the show, give us a rating, five stars, we love. Uh, you know, and that helps new people find us. 

Sean Walker: Let me be honest. If it's not five stars, don't rate it. Just give us the five star rating and move on. Like, we don't need any of those one stars. Like, I know it's my fault. I'm sorry. Just, just cuss me out privately, but give the five star in public. You know what I... 

Andy Leviss: Speaking of which, if you want to let us know what you don't like or what you do, hit us up via email, signal2noise@prosoundweb.com. That's the number two...signal, the number two, noise at prosoundweb. com. Let us know what you think. If you've got a cool thing you want to talk about on the show, let us know like, Hey, I think I'd make a cool guest. 

And if we agree, we'll invite you on. If we don't agree, we'll probably invite you on too. Um, and, uh, I mean, we get desperate some weeks, what do you, what do you, um, and then also, uh, those of you who listened last week, we, uh, did a test run of a new feature we're trying out with answering listener questions and sharing some tips and tricks. 

And so if you've got a question you want to ask us or ask, you know, past or future guests of the show, uh, record that there's, uh, links in the show notes. But basically you can either record it yourself and email it to us or email it to us as text, and one of us will read it in our beautiful dulcet tones. Uh, or if you go to speakpipe.com/s2n, you can actually leave a voicemail right there. 

You don't have to get crazy. You don't have to set up a mic. Uh, you know, it can sound like it's recorded on a phone. It's kind of a casual thing, and we'd love to keep that going and get some more questions. So hit us up and again, if you've got tips and tricks you want to share, do that too. Quick tips are awesome, and you get to hear stuff that's not from just the two of us and our guests. 

So, you know, let's rock that out. And now that you all are sick of me talking and soliloquying on my own, uh, why don't we go around and we'll introduce our panel this week. Uh, we've got a few guests with us. We're doing a little bit of a round table on, uh, corporate event audio, which is kind of fresh in my mind because I just flew back from a gig yesterday and boy are my arms tired. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, right. Totally. And I'm kind of stoked to nerd on some corporate audio stuff. I gotta be honest. I spent a lot 

Andy Leviss: like we spend a lot of time talking about like music stuff, and some of it's similar, but some of it's not like, you know, we can talk about the best kick drum or snare sound forever. But like, what about the best speech sound in a hotel ballroom? That's a very tricky and different thing. But it can be a very lucrative thing, if you're good at it. 

And I... 

Sean Walker: Wait, I gotta be good at it too? Damn it, 

Andy Leviss: it helps, or you've at least got to hire the people that are good at it. Speaking of which, I think we've got three of the best... 

Sean Walker: Then the guys I'm calling are on this podcast right now. So perfect. Leave your number in the bottom of the chat. 

Andy Leviss: right. Um, but yeah, we got three of the best. First of all, joining us again after guest hosting last week and no conspiracy theories, don't read into it, it just happens he's the perfect guy to tag in two weeks in a row because we know people are going to start being like, is he going to be on the show permanently? Uh, is Aram Piligian? What's up, Aram? 

Aram Piligian: Hey, how's it going? 

Andy Leviss: And then the next virtual, I keep saying virtual box like y'all can see it at home, but I'm going to keep doing it because I see him there, but in the next box over is the one, the only Michael Curtis. 

What up, Michael? 

Michael Curtis: Hello, 

Sean Walker: Sup 

Andy Leviss: And then literally phoning it in for us this week is my friend and yours, the one and only Brian Maddox. 

Brian Maddox: I love that. He's just phoning it in, you know, just barely. It's like I'm actually driving and so I'm actually doing two things at once, not just phoning it in. 

Andy Leviss: And we're going to get back to doing two things at once a little later on on the podcast. So I appreciate the segue... 

Sean Walker: You said I couldn't make those jokes anymore, Andy. 

Andy Leviss: We'll see. We'll see. We'll see how that goes. Um, but, uh, uh, yeah, I don't know. Do we want to do a quick round of coolest thing or should we just hit it hot and heavy? 

Sean Walker: Hot and heavy, bro. Every time. 

Andy Leviss: Alright, we'll come back around. I got a new coolest thing that Sean knows what it is, but we'll talk about that later because it'll be relevant. Um, yeah, so corporate stuff, like, like we were talking before, I think one of the things I really want to get into is like signal chain. Um, and you know, whether you're doing everything in the console or like outboard stuff, or how much that varies and getting like clean, clear vocals for corporate events, because it is a very different beast. 

Um, I mean, I'll throw out the first question, because this is one of those things that like people get real religious about, and I feel like I'm the oddity here. Uh, Omnilavs are cardioid. 

Brian Maddox: Oh, who, who, who gets to, who gets, who gets to jump in first? I 

Andy Leviss: I mean, you just opened your 

Sean Walker: cause you spoke up. 

Brian Maddox: just opened, I just opened my mouth, so there you go. Uh, I, I'm a big cardioid lav in the PA. So if we're talking about PA applications, I'm a big cardioid lav person, and I think you're right, I know you're sort of an omni guy, um, but then I, a lot of that's just, you know, when, if you're going to use a, a car, cardioids just work better for me in a lot of sub optimal situations, sometimes sometimes. 

You know, sometimes corporates are, uh, essentially glorified breakout rooms that people are willing to spend money on. And so, you know, the speaker placement may not be ideal. You may get a, uh, a presenter that wants to run out in front of the PA or do all kinds of crazy stuff. So, you know, I, I'm still sort of an old school WL 185, Shure, you know, cardioid lav guy. 

Uh 

Michael Curtis: can. 

Brian Maddox: Yep, yep, the beer can, which, you know, it's, they're, they're horrible, they're huge, they don't look good on camera, but they consistently, you know, sound good and are easy to get a good sound out of through a wide variety of, of stuff. Now, headset mics is a different, different discussion altogether, but sticking with lavs, that's my, that's my two cents. 

Andy Leviss: I'm laughing at the size thing, because literally sitting on my desk and I'm not even sure where they came from. I've got one of the little double mounts for WL 185s, which is like the most ridiculous thing you can clip on somebody, but sometimes you need it. 

Sean Walker: Brian, you said that. It's better in sub optimal situations. In your entire career, can you count on more than one hand any time you've had an optimal corporate situation to put a lav in? 

Brian Maddox: Um, they are extremely rare. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, alright, cool. I'm just making sure it's just not my experience and it was kind of, you know, with everybody here. 

Aram Piligian: Usually optimal for a corporate gig means it's actually at a performing venue, 

Sean Walker: Right. 

Aram Piligian: not in a ballroom, anywhere but a ballroom. 

Sean Walker: Not the short way in a 

Andy Leviss: walls aren't 

Aram Piligian: right, the, the PA is set up and the video screens are out of the way. It's a good 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, um, well, while you're talking, what about you, Aram? What's your feeling on that? 

Aram Piligian: I'm actually also on, uh, team Cardioid Most of the corporate stuff I've done, just basically echoing what, uh, everything Brian said, uh, I, I just have a better feel of what's going to happen. It's a lot more predictable. Um, and I've had the experience of, uh, having them side by side in the same situation where, uh, I had a show up in Boston a bunch of years ago where somehow in a, uh, WL 183 got mixed in with all the 185s. 

And I, my A2, didn't catch it because there's windscreens on everything and, uh, sure enough, at one point, one of the present, you know, panel comes out on stage and one of the mics is like, way different than everything else, uh, and way harder to control, and then immediately that alarm bell goes off of like, hmm. 

Can you just take a look at that when that comes back and tell me if what I think happened, happened, and sure enough. Um, so yeah. I 

Sean Walker: Dude, they look 

Andy Leviss: had happened 

Sean Walker: With the foam wing cover on, they look identical. It's so hard. We had the same thing one time. I was like, what is wrong with this thing? Cause they're, it's literally the same housing and everything. There's no way you could tell from front of the house. 

Andy Leviss: And what about you, Michael? Are you on the same boat? 

Michael Curtis: I, I am, I'm going to solidify the hat trick here. And, uh, I go with the WL180, uh, uh, 185s as well. I, um, like you said, it's, it's nice if you can get in like a controllable environment, the Omni and the Richlow and all this stuff. But I guess intelligibility always ends up trumping. Absolute natural Morgan Freeman richness in most of the corporate situations. 

So it's great if you can get both. But in the hierarchy of things, I'm always thinking of the intelligibility and controllability and dependability first. Uh, so Team cardio, 

Sean Walker: Thanks fellas. Your checks in the mail. We actually called each other earlier just to gang up on Andy. So it would be Team Cardioid versus this fucking guy. 

Michael Curtis: Yeah. 

Andy Leviss: So, so to be fair, I, I never want the only mic option I have on site to be Omni, because I don't want to be the asshole who insisted on it, and then tucks his tail the whole way home when it bites me in the ass, but if possible, I always want the option and part of it is because I'm a I'm a fucking theater nerd. 

So I'm used to like pulling every trick out of my pocket to ring every last bit of gain out of an Omni. And part of is I've been bitten so many times by a card that's either placed wrong, flopped to the side, or like it's a panel discussion. So we put the presenters on his one side and the panelists on the other side. 

And as they go on stage, they swap sides. And now everybody's turned away from them, which the other reason which goes into like Andy's everybody's most expensive friend category is I'm less picky about it if I can get DPA 4080s because that DPA thing if they just they sound the same but quieter off axis. 

So like I feel a little less like that whereas like a 185 like it sounds great on axis but as soon as you get off axis it's a totally different microphone. So it's one of those like Because I am comfortable that I can ring a lot out of an Omni, I'll usually try that first. But I do know that puts me in a minority. 

And I do know like talking to other friends, it seems like those of us who tend that way almost exclusively come from a theater background where we're just used to having to deal with that. Um, but yeah, it's a, it's always a question I like to ask just to see if I'm the crazy one. 

Brian Maddox: Well, and not to, you know, vacillate my answer, but every single point you just made is valid. Like, for sure, one of the, the classic, oh, I put the microphone on the wrong side and or the right side, and then the presenter went to the other side of the stage. Um, is one of my, you know, huge pet peeves, or just the turning of the head back and forth. 

And, you know, a lot of times you have to, you know, dial in a whole bunch of What I end up doing is dialing in a whole bunch of low end hack on a dynamic EQ, so that when they turn their head towards the microphone, the proximity effect is is a bit negated, but you're right, it's An Omni sounds a million times better. 

Um, so it's, you know, horses for horses. 

Aram Piligian: also think that there's an element of, uh, taking note of what your presenters are like and the kind of show it is. If you are doing an event that has a lot of people that do a lot of public speaking up in front, uh, chances are an Omnilav might definitely be a good choice because they're gonna actually project enough that you won't have to work as hard. 

Uh, whereas if you're doing a lot more casual kinds of events where it's just, I won't just say random people, but you know, internal team, you know, internal events with internal teams that don't do a lot of public speaking, everyone's first rodeo, uh, that extra little bit of pickup you get. Uh, from a cardioid, you know, knowing that you're rolling the dice as far as placement goes, um, but that extra little bit helps when you have someone who's just deathly quiet and, uh, you need to get something out of it. 

Sean Walker: Totally. And as far as placement goes, are you guys beating your A2s like I am? Or are you guys, like, nice to them and they do a good job, or? Because I pretty much just flog them until that thing's in the right spot and then let them go on stage. 

Aram Piligian: So I actually, if it's someone that I've not worked with before or if I'm training, meaning it's like an A2 that's not a full time A2, they're just an audio tech who is my A2 for the gig. I will actually show them what I want, tell them what I'm looking for, and then actually make them do it to me, like make them pretend I'm a presenter and put a lav on me so that I can sit there and help them along the way and give them some tips. 

Sean Walker: Dude, that's super smart. That's awesome. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, I dig it. And yeah, I've, 

Brian Maddox: Go ahead. 

Andy Leviss: oh no, go ahead Brian. 

Brian Maddox: Yeah, and one of the things that I've, I've come to is Especially if I can get a center placement on a lav, I'm, I'm getting farther, farther down the body than I used to, because the PAs have gotten so, the pattern control on PAs have gotten so much better, that I can get away with a little bit less proximity, and uh, When you do that, then you get a little bit more consistent sound with regards to when people turn their head. 

If you just think of it in terms of geometry, if the microphone is like right underneath their chin or, you know, right up to close to the collar, then as they're turning their head and moving, you get a very different, you know, it's moving in across the axis a lot more. So a lot of times I'll go another button down than would nor, than I would have done 10 years ago. 

Just because I can get away with it from a gain before feedback standpoint. 

Sean Walker: It's kind of like a, like, range ratio when you're doing PA stuff, right, Michael? Where you just, like, you get it all so it's not quite so, so close to it and doesn't make such a difference from front to back. Side to side, same kind of thing, right? 

Brian Maddox: Exactly. 

Sean Walker: And then one question for, you know, all y'all bad motherfoyers, where do you like to put those lavs? 

Like physically, like how many buttons or where on the person or, you know what I mean? Where do you, where's your favorite spot for your lav? 

Michael Curtis: If we get the privilege of having a nice pressed thick collared shirt that is, 

Sean Walker: So both times that it wasn't an IT company. Got it. 

Michael Curtis: Yeah, yeah, I guess, um, is basically the second button down and resting on that bottom button as like a little support, um, and then a little tiny small square thing of gaff right behind it to make sure it sticks and then cable down. 

Um, I will say sometimes, as you've probably done much more than us, Andy, you have to get really creative with how you mount things. I was doing an event, a woman had a turtleneck. It was insistent on not using a handheld. Um, my A2 did a good job, I was very thin, but the element actually ended up resting up against where her, I guess, this is weird, her Adam's apple would be if she had one, but uh, but it just vibrated and like you could hear the distortion in the microphone, like the actual element. 

And so that's what I've been, I've 

Andy Leviss: I mean, this is where Aram and I chime in and refer everybody back to last week's episode with Mark Russey of Lav Magnet, plug, plug, plug. 

Michael Curtis: Yes, so, basically, I wish I had one of those, uh, 

Sean Walker: we carry one of the DPA necklace microphones just for that situation, just so you can whip it out of a workbox and be like, Hey, guess what? You're going to wear this today. And by the way, somebody's getting an invoice. 

Michael Curtis: so, uh, so all I had to say, it, and then keeping with the cardio thing, always making sure and pointing it back towards the mouth if you have to put it on the side, so I do like the little 45 degree angle increments on the Shure lavs, um, and then I'm sure Aram and Brian have more to add here. 

Brian Maddox: Well, and I kind of already threw in my two cents worth, and yeah, that's, uh, I actually spend more time, I think, with A2s that I don't know well, um, talking to them about if they can't get it in the center because there isn't a, you know, a nice collared shirt and it has to go on a jacket or it has to go on a side. 

Making sure that I, I want this pointed right at, as much at their mouth as I can possibly get, like, you know, make sure we get that angle right, um, and I, I would rather have a secure position on, uh, the lapel of a jacket than an insecure position on a blouse that might flop or, or do whatever because I can always work with it being off axis, but if it flops, you know, flops down in the middle of the presentation, then one, it looks silly. 

And two, I've got, you know, a major audio problem 

Andy Leviss: Right on. Uh, yeah, and I'm, I know I'm ending up in, in much the same place as I think when I do try a directional next, I am going to try that trick from Brian and drop it down a little lower. Uh, yeah, like when I'm using an Omni, I'm generally getting further up. And again, there, proximity isn't an issue, so. 

Um, and likewise there, if I'm using an Omni, the placement and the closeness is giving me some of that gain before feedback that I need. 

Sean Walker: Totally, dude. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, I think there's, there's one other tangential subject off of lavs I want to get to, but I'm going to circle back to that if nobody has anything else immediately on lavs. 

I have another question before we get to 

Aram Piligian: I had a, uh, I had a question. Uh, how do you guys handle your extra cable? You're clipping on to someone's waistband or belt or something. What do you do with that cable? I have seen every variety of stuffing it in pockets, stuffing it in waistbands, trying to wrap it around the pack, and yeah, what have you found is the best way 

Sean Walker: I just cop a feel with the presenter. I just make sure to cop a feel and get a good relationship going. You know what I mean? No, like, like Michael was saying, if you got 

Andy Leviss: giving us that much more work in the 

Sean Walker: yeah, a hundred percent, that's why I call you guys and they don't let me on site, but like, like you guys said, right, if you can, if you get a nice button up shirt, drop it down the shirt, come out the last button around the belt through the belt loops, and then into a pocket or side and just tuck that in the, we just took the extras in the pocket or sometimes make a little coil and tuck it in the belt between the belt and the pants itself or whatever. 

If they're wearing a jacket, if you can't see it, you know, really anything you can do, depending on their garment to. Hide it, get rid of it, secure it, you know, whatever. But in a position that it's not going to pull itself out as they flail around on stage and, you know, depending on the presenter, they can be crazy or they can be real boring. 

And if they're going to be crazy, you got to give them a little extra lead room, you know? 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, like as much as there's pluses and minuses of like the pivot where like post pandemic everybody's gotten more casual, like I miss being able to always put it in the inside coat pocket and just stuff all the cable right 

Sean Walker: Dude, totally. 

Michael Curtis: I usually, as far as order of operations when I'm micing up somebody, I'll run the cable down. and then leave actually the capsule hanging out if it's assuming it's in the center i'll leave it hanging i'll actually clip that on last and i'll come back put it on the pack and i usually circle up around the clip and back around basically like a 270 and then see how much and then i'll have it back, tucked behind so it's almost like a little way to kind of pinch it at the belt so it doesn't pull on the actual connector itself. 

And I'll see how much slack I have depending on the height of the person and then I'll try to make that same little 270 loop inside the jacket or shirt so that nothing actually has a direct line to straight pull down if that makes sense. And that usually ends up eating Most of the slack up, um, but 

Sean Walker: a bunch of strain relief, basically. 

Michael Curtis: Yeah, so just like it's two concentric strain release that go around, but it kind of pinches at the bottom. And always, if someone's wearing a jacket and we're doing on there, I always end up, uh, gaffing twice the little squares on the inside of the jacket along it, just so their elbows or something in the side doesn't do it. 

So that's it. 

Andy Leviss: And on that front, I'm going to throw out a trick I picked up years ago from the, from the late, great, uh, Jim Lovell, one of the best AGs I had the privilege of working with many times over the years. And, uh, Jim would always tear off a bunch of, like, half inch strips of gaff tape in both black and white and put them, when he was wearing a jacket, on the underside of his lapel. 

Just like pre done there. So anytime you're making somebody up, you can just steal one of those off and if you have to tack it to the back of a tie or to the inside of the coat, you got it right there. And it does two things. A, it keeps you from fumbling for the roll of gaff tape. And B, because you've already pre stuck it to your coat a little bit, it's not quite as sticky. 

So if you're putting it on an expensive tie like we were talking about last week or a nice coat, it's not going to pull off quite as much of the fuzz and be as much of an issue. Um, yeah, although also like there's more and more clips out these days that have the little retainer thing on the back side of it for the cable to help kind of dress the cable around the tie or the jacket, which depends on the brand and model of clip. 

Some of them work really well, some of them it's more hassle than it's worth. I think, um, yeah, and, um, also, yeah, like, kinda, I try and go behind the buttons when it's a button up shirt, um, again, with the thrown out, like, toys that help with that, there's the, either the mic drop or the, or the lav bullet from, um, is it Sound Guy Solutions, I think, um, which are both little weights that are actually made with, like, Connector on it to attach to the connector of the lav and just help it right down inside the jacket The lav bullet's nice and sleek and it looks like a bullet which is why I don't use it for fly dates because the TSA Does not appreciate it So I'm actually in the process of chaining out They now because of that issue make one called the mic drop that looks almost like a little like stainless steel SM58 with a lav connector at the bottom and is a little more it just looks like a a weird, uh, totem and not like a, not like something that the TSA is going to immediately tackle you for. 

Um, yeah, and then yeah, that if, if they can tuck it in their waistband, that's great. Um, I kind of try and balance it out. Like if I know if they're going to be behind a lectern or if it's like a camera only thing and they're like chest up, then I won't necessarily pick that battle with folks, but if, or if the jacket's going to be buttoned, but if it is, I try and like, I don't want to be the one with the sloppy cable. 

Sean Walker: Dude, 100%. 

Andy Leviss: Uh, whatever you do, Brian, Aram, either of you got any anything to add on that? 

Brian Maddox: that you guys, you guys pretty much hit all, all the high spots. And I especially like the, uh, the, the, you know, the strain relief on both sides kind of thing. It's like, make sure it's, it's clipped behind on using the, the mic clip. And then, yeah, the. Kind of single spin or, or clipped in with the belt pack. 

Uh, cause again, you know, people are going to move around and the, it's gotten a lot better, they've, they've manufactured them tighter, but the weakest, weakest link is always the connector going into the belt back and anything that you can do to relieve strain off of that. So you don't end up with, you know, the sudden crackles on stage is fantastic. 

Michael Curtis: Oh, and last little thought. If, depending on when you're RF. LPDAs or whatever antennas are making sure the belt pack ends up on that side of the hip if it, uh, or if they're like sitting down so it can just have the most line of sight. 

Andy Leviss: Oh yeah, you know, that's the thing lots of corporate folks don't think about that like, we run into theater a lot, is like, just, there are certain bodies particularly that just, like, something about people's body chemistry, like, can really soak up a lot of that RF energy if the antenna's in the wrong spot. 

Yeah, so the other tangent off that I wanted to go on is, uh, lectern mics. Love them, hate them, what do you do with them? Uh, and again, talking specifically mics, I think we'll circle back around for both lavs and lecterns and talk about processing after. But, uh, and I mean, I'll, I'll, I guess, since, since my mouth is already yammering on, I'll answer first, which is I, I always want it out, because again, like, having cardioids when I'm using Omni's, I never want to be the reason we don't have a backup, but I try to never use it unless I have to, um. 

I and I will off if it's there, use the lav if they've got one. Uh, a trick I've heard about recently, and I'm, I'm trying to remember if this came from one of y'all or somebody else that I haven't had a chance to try yet, only because I haven't needed to rely on a lectern is doing two mics on lectern. 

One, that's the big standard, obvious gooseneck that is 90% there just as a decoy so the presenter can come up and mess with it. to their heart's content and not make your day suck. And then using either a shorter gooseneck or a wider one, or like, even like the little mini shotgun, like an AKG 747 down at the bottom that gives you your consistent placement of what you're actually going to use, but that they don't notice and or just it's far enough away that they can't touch and mess with. 

So I'm, I'm intrigued to try that next chance I get, because it seems like it could be a potential happy medium of the two. But yeah, curious to see what other folks do or don't do. 

Sean Walker: Whichever one of you geniuses came up with the two mic idea, I'm stealing it and using it. That's fucking awesome. Cause every time, guaranteed, the first thing you do is grab that fucking podium mic and start whipping it around and shit, you're like, reaching for the mute button as fast as you can so it stops crackling in the PA, like, that's, that's awesome. 

I'm stealing that for sure. 

Andy Leviss: that's how I got it. I can't, I can't remember who it was. Like, I don't know. Was that a you thing, Brian? Maybe? Or was that somebody else? 

Brian Maddox: No. And I, you know, it's, it's funny. I have a, uh, a technique I used to use and I, I think I'm just gonna start carrying the kit to, to go back to it because it worked so well. Um, I, I used to use it with, uh, With, with AKG, uh, uh, CK series, but basically any, any, um, any series of, of small, of, of SDC where you can put a, an extension cable in between the capsule and the, the body so that you just have, you know, just, just the capsule, but I'm talking about, you know. 

Think, think like the Sheps, like the regular sized, uh, a capsule. Putting two of those on an over under SM57 clip, the old presidential clip. You squish the clip down in a vise grip so that they fit, um, over, under in one of those clips. And then you use a, I guess, what are they, like four or five inch, um, hard gooseneck, so short gooseneck, right in the center of the, of the lectern. 

What you end up with is a lectern like that's probably a foot and a half away from the presenter. It's so short. That they don't move it because it's like weird, like it's, it's not right up in their face. They don't move it. I'll use a hypercardioid capsule and a cardioid capsule. Um, but this is a trick that I used to use and except in a situation where, you know, I had gained before feedback problems or really, really echoey room where the distance between the lectern mic and the person's. 

Speaking was, you know, problematic just because of all the extra, uh, extra sound coming into the mic. Absolutely my favorite trick because it solved the moving the microphone around. Um, I got way more consistent, um, signal with regards to when people moved side to side. I could get two presenters up on, on the lectern, switch to that cardioid versus the hyper, and it sounded super natural. 

Not supernatural, but very natural. Um, and, uh, so yeah, like still, still one of my favorites. I might, uh, even go back to trying that, but maybe use the, the Audix MicroBooms, which are just fantastic sounding, uh, microphones for, for, for lecterns, um, Told the story many times, but, uh, we did, um, Chris Leonard and I did a, uh, a thing with the Sheps and the Audix MicroBoom as the backup. 

Um, for a fairly well known, um, religious leader. Uh, and uh, 

Andy Leviss: Wink, wink. 

Brian Maddox: wink, wink, nudge, nudge, and um, I, I ended up using the MicroBoom for like 90 percent of the show. It sounded so good, right, right next to the Sheps, it sounded so good, and the wind rejection was even better, and then we ended up having a bunch of wind at the last second. 

So that's my, that's my out of the box, uh, idea when it comes to lectern mics. 

Andy Leviss: I like it. And yeah, I gotta, I gotta check out the MicroBoom because the one that always pops to mind for me is I know DPA in their Goosenecks makes a really short Gooseneck version, which I've been, I've thought a few times about picking up for my own kit at some point. Um, and the nice thing there is a lot of those capsules are swappable too. 

So, uh, you know, aside from money being an object, uh, um, 

Michael Curtis: It isn't for you, 

Andy Leviss: different lengths of goosenecks or not and swap them out as needed. But yeah, I've thought about getting that real, real short one for that too, with like one of those, like the 4020 series capsules or whatever on it. 

Brian Maddox: yeah, it's really, it's, it's really, sorry to interrupt you. It's really an interesting thing, what it does with the psychology of a, of a presenter, because when they don't have the microphone right up there where they can grab it when it's kind of far away, I've seen, you know, I've had them like kind of touch it and like, they move it like a micrometer, you know, micro inch. And then they just sort of go, I don't know what to do with that. And they, it's kind of like the presidential mic kit where, uh, President Clinton was always famous for every single time he walked up on stage, he would grab the mic and move it up a half inch and down a half inch and then let go of it. Um, because it was so far away. 

It was like, how far can you move it? And like that. It helps, it helps to get away from, you know, the microphone way off the side or, or whatever and just the awkwardness of people moving the mics and the next person is a foot shorter and it's up in their eyeballs and everything else. 

Andy Leviss: All right, Aram, Michael, anything to add there? 

Aram Piligian: I, uh, I also enjoy Brian's trick of having a cardioid and a hyper, um, even just with the, uh, Shure 185, or I guess MX 412s, 418s, but surprise, it's a 185 element on the end, uh, and so I actually carry, um, 185s, um, so Omni, Hyper, and Cardioid, so that I have all the options. And, uh, a lot of times what I'll do, if, depending on how the geometry of the lectern works, um, I'll put I'll lay it out so they're, uh, the microphones are top bottom, not side side, and the top one I'll make the hyper, so that way if someone's really tall, there's, there's the reach, and then if someone's short, they're a lot closer to the card, and I end up using the card most of the time, and then it just takes a couple minutes. 

Overall, you know, and we can talk about this a little bit on the processing side, overall the, uh, feedback situation with those is similar enough that you can ring them out pretty similarly and then just adjust for the tonality difference on the individual channel EQ. 

Andy Leviss: Michael, anything else to add? 

Michael Curtis: I think the only thing is I had a buddy who ended up finding a 3D print file for a little double Lego man hands that, that takes the 412, uh, goosenecks it has in there. And cause it used to be like e tape or just something awful looking, but it's the cleanest, smallest black little thing. I need to find it. 

It's open source and share it with the community. But, uh, but basically all the processing and tricks they've guys, these guys have it covered, but it's the handiest little, basically two opposing little Lego man hands that do it. 

Sean Walker: That's pretty cool. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, 

Sean Walker: All right. Talk to me about this micro boom. 

Brian Maddox: It exists. 

Sean Walker: No, I know, but what I'm saying is you, you've said it now a couple of times. They've said it in the community a bunch of times. And now I went into the website and finally looked at it. It's bigger than I thought. Like it's a long ass stick. Like what, how, how are you guys deploying that? It's not, it's not, it doesn't 412, right? 

Brian Maddox: yeah, it's not and, and so it depends. There's, there's a few different ways to do it now. Um, and, and there's also different mics in the MicroBoom, uh, uh, collection. But Like, like the, uh, the other mics I was talking about, you can get the extension wire so that the element and the body of the mic are separated so that then you have a much smaller element, 

Sean Walker: I gotcha. 

Brian Maddox: to deal with and, and, and yeah, you can put that on a, on a traditional, um, uh, you know, just a regular full sized gooseneck. 

Again, the, the, the reach on those things is, I hate that for microphones, but you guys know what I mean, um, is remarkable. I mean, the amount of, the amount of pattern control and, and, um, side rejection is, is remarkable. Um, so yeah, you, you have to get a little bit more creative with the mounting cause it's not quite as, but, but again, it goes back to me, to, to my thought of, if I've got reasonable, my, um, PA placement. 

Um, so that I don't have a ton of PA wash on stage. I, the farther away I can get that lectern mic. From the person to, this is totally counterintuitive, but just, it's how it's worked for me, the farther away I can get that microphone from the presenter and still get a good, good enough game before feedback and not get too much room in the, in the, um, the lectern mic, the happier I am because it just, it's so, it makes a much more consistent from person to person and. 

Even when the person moves around or they, they, they move their head or whatever, that whole angle to the, to the microphone thing, uh, you know, you end up with much less change in the ratio of distance to microphone. Um, so, yeah, 

Andy Leviss: Anybody else have anything to add to that before we tip into that processing side of it? So yeah, uh, why don't we dip into processing? I mean, we can start, uh, I think, I think amongst all of us, we've all at least experimented with both like entirely in the console. And with adding outboard stuff in, so maybe we touch into that a bit, and just what tips and tricks we got. 

Uh, Aram looks like he's chomping at the bit to go. 

Aram Piligian: Yeah, I, I really, uh, it's worth discussing what are the tools that we can use. What are all of them? Lay them all out and then, and then talk about how we use them. But, um, So, in any console, uh, that we're using, you know, there is Presumably some sort of EQ, and, uh, there's often a channel EQ, there's often, um, an EQ on a group or an output, uh, and that frequently has many more bands available, uh, than just the four. 

Depends on the console. And then there's also graphic EQs, which you can, might be able to insert, uh, onto channels or groups or something like that. But then, kind of more esoteric tools that are, uh, that are out there are things like the Dugan Automixer, um, things like the, um, dynamic EQs that are available, um, any noise reduction plugins, compressors, um, and so, Oh, and also primary source enhancers. 

And I think it's worth kind of going around and saying, you know, what, what are the tools that you use all the time? What are the tools that you don't really bother with, or is it situation dependent? Um, and what do they actually do? Cause there's a lot of stuff in the desks that people don't really know how to use it the right way. 

Probably worth sharing. You're muted, Andy. 

Andy Leviss: look at me. How many audio professionals does it take? 

Michael Curtis: Six. 

Andy Leviss: I was volunteering to go as Tribute and go first. Um, yeah, I'll say, like I mean, if I'm in a situation where I'm just in the console these days, that's mostly on Yamaha, although I think at this point any console that I'd be willing to accept has some semblance of those tools, which is the Dugan or some sort of auto mixer, which I'll usually insert by default just because it's Easier to have it and not need it, um, you know, obviously if you've only got a single presenter at a time, it's not really doing you a ton unless you're getting into, when we get into streaming, we'll talk, we, if we have time, we can talk about places where that becomes useful again. 

Um, but generally for a single presenter, I won't, but I, I like having it there for inevitably when, uh, Second presenter jumps on, or when we get q and a going because that's it. There's always gonna be an interjection from the questioner. Again, halfway through the answer, when you least expect it. That's it. 

It only takes you a couple gigs to realize you, you might ride the question, mic down. You don't take it out unless you've got a real good line of sight and a fast finger on it, uh, of the questioner. Um, I think we've all been burned by that at some point. 

Sean Walker: Not me. Never, never in my whole career ever. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, and then, uh, um, and obviously Dugan, uh, or, or whatever other auto mix you're using, uh, is, is the one insert we usually want post fade, uh, cause otherwise the other mics are going to be riding your main mic down, um, and then on, on the, uh, Depend on the, on the pre fade side always if I'm using some sort of primary source enhancer, whether PSE, the, the Dugan 5045, any of those, uh, particularly the Dugan and particularly the Yamaha emulation of the Dugan. 

really, really wants a hot signal. It's, um, so that I'm almost always going to want pre. It also just, I think, works better pre. 

Michael Curtis: I'm going to be that guy. It's a Neve, 

Aram Piligian: Yeah. 

Andy Leviss: Oh my God. Yeah. Sorry. It's early for all. I've been flying for like three out of the 

Michael Curtis: you're good, man. I just want to make sure when people start Googling 

Andy Leviss: no, you're right. You're totally right. Your wrong real smart dude invented it. 

Uh, yes, it is the Neve 5045. Um, yeah, so that's always gonna go, go pre for me, uh, both to hit it with the hard level we need and to, and to make sure it's, it's doing the most it can. 

Aram Piligian: So how do you figure out your input level for that exact situation? Because I've, I've definitely found leaving enough headroom that someone clapping in front, or let's exclude clapping, but leaving enough headroom that someone being loud in front of a microphone Uh, won't clip it out often creates a situation where it's not loud enough to drive the 5045 hard enough. 

And most of the time, you know, unless lavs, it's a little different, but especially like lecterns, I run into that. And so often it's one of those things that gets inserted, but I don't end up really getting as much use out of it as I think I could or should. And now Andy ran away, so he can't answer the question. 

Andy Leviss: I know the, the dog just came back from the walk and was scratching at the door, so we're gonna let Braylon to visit. Um, hey buddy. Um, yeah, I mean, and that's also, that was the challenge I was gonna get into is on the Yamaha side, especially. Uh, if you're on a CL or QL, your, your insert points are limited in gang together, so you have to start doing all sorts of weird tricks to, and that's one of the trade offs you have to make when using a 50 45 and a Dugan is, which do I use, because the Dugan needs to be post, the 50 45 needs to be pre, it gets, it can get tricky. 

It's one of many, many reasons, money being no object, I like, I like myself a PM if I'm in Yamaha worlds, 

Sean Walker: All right. I'll be the first one to embarrass myself. And just admit out loud that I put the Dugan on the insert along with a, uh, dynamic EQ and I put the 5045 on the bus and I drive that bus into the fucking wall to get the level 

Andy Leviss: And I was going to say, if I need to use a doogan and that on the same thing, I will, I will do that if I have to. I prefer to do it. 

Sean Walker: or I mean, I'm on a QL. So I, 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, I 

Sean Walker: with the 

Andy Leviss: prefer to do it on an input because it's, it's going to get me a little more and it's going to do it to each because for those who don't know what the 5045 is, it's They will tell you it's not a gator and expander, it's a gator and expander. 

Sean Walker: Real schmancy one, but it is 

Andy Leviss: it's a very, very particularly tuned and smartly designed one, but it's, it's very rapidly ducking the mic or pulling it out anytime the person isn't actually talking. And it's the thing I've said on here before, and definitely said at the Discord, that in my mind, it's not a tool you use instead of ringing something out to get gain, it's a tool you use to get. 

that little bit extra more at the end 

Sean Walker: thousand percent. 

Andy Leviss: and like i've definitely had moments like shows where like literally punching it out like suddenly you hear that ringing start to swell that's not there because it's just it's nipping because we all get those times where like the way the room is and the way this the mics are tuned If they're talking, it doesn't really excite that energy to get feedback, but as soon as they stop talking, if they're in front enough of the PA, then suddenly just stuff starts to bloom up a little bit, and the 5045's really good at nipping that in the bud, um, and to do that best it wants, it should be on the individual channel, but yeah, particularly on a CL that's not always practical, 

Sean Walker: And I, and I will, I will second what Aram said, which is, it is one of the things in my particular workflow that is. Let's call it optional, but it's the one thing where I'm like, that is working today or that is not working today and it comes in or out as needed. Often I find that I make it work, but there are definitely times where you're like, nope, bypass, that's just not going to work. 

But the, for me, the Dugan is inserted on the channel at all times. Regardless, because if it's not working, it's not working. And when it is working, it's saving your ass. You know what I mean? Like it's not, it's not hurting anything by being there that I can think of unless somebody smarter than me has got a reason. 

Andy Leviss: Are we, we're talking the Dugan or we're talking the, 

Sean Walker: we're talking about the Dugan on the channel is always inserted for me. Right. And the 5045 is the one thing that I can take in and out and go like, man, that's really nice sometimes. And other times you're like, like Aram was saying, you're just not getting enough level or the person's like terrified of their own voice and whispering rather than using their big boy voice. 

You got to take it out. Cause it won't get enough level to. Make it work. Action. Properly. You know, make, we'll make it work, right? Haha! 

Brian Maddox: and I'm going to jump in here and be that guy. Um, the 5045, uh, annoys the fuck out of me. Um, it's, it's, it's, 

Sean Walker: Get him! 

Brian Maddox: it, it wants to, it, it, it's, in the, just the right circumstances when I can hit it with a hot signal and, uh, I really want between phrases for things to be clean, um, then fine, but, you know, out in the real world with like different levels of voices coming up and, you know, all of a sudden it's, it's cutting off phrase. 

I mean, it is, it's a, it's a, it's like any, any gate or expander or anything else. Um, it's, it, it can be helpful in some circumstances, but I, I, I spent so much time on a Cedar and then I kind of lost access to my Cedar. And so I tried to sort of replace it with a 5045 and they're very, very different tools. 

Sean Walker: Well, bro, that's like cheating. 

Brian Maddox: yeah, and, and it's, and it's just like, it's like, like, you know, like Aram said, just like, you have to hit it hard. So then where does it go in the chain if you, if you put it on the bus, which is valid, but now I have to make sure I'm always hitting that bus hard, um, or it's not going to open up properly. 

I don't know. Like I, I will use it in, in, in the right circumstances and it can, it can help clean up records and, you know, get, get some of the extra room noise out of. out of the, uh, you know, out of the microphone, but I don't know. I find myself as more frustrated with it than going, oh, this was the answer to my hopes, prayers, and dreams. 

Now I, in like more broadcast y situations, I've had better luck with it because then, yeah, maybe using omni lavs or things like that where there's a lot more room in there and I really want to get more of that out. But in a live situation with PA, I don't know, I'm moving more and more away from it just because I know what it does, but it's, the trade offs just haven't really been worth it. 

Well, and again, in a QLCL situation where you're, now you're fighting insert points and you want The 5045 ahead, you know, pre fader and you want the Duke in post fader and, you know, it's just, I find myself like standing on my head trying to get what I want, um, out of it. Now, yeah, as soon as I get a RIVAGE, then, you know, all bets are off. 

I don't mind having it in, but, but, you know, as, as you said, if you can't punch it out quickly, It can sometimes really bite you because then all of a sudden it's cutting off words of a quiet person and any, and those are the kinds of things in a corporate that, that people really notice, you know, it's, you know, I don't know how many people are going to notice, oh, I got a little bit cleaner microphone, um, but everyone's going to notice when like three or four syllables get cut off on the really, really quiet speaker. 

And that's. So anyway, that's my unpopular opinion. 

Michael Curtis: really like using it on DJs and front of house VOG microphones. Cause those are strong, consistent sources that it does pay. to be able to have less than background noise because it's the DJ's full back of their music screaming in there and I want that to be clean and not have to rely on the Duke because the Duke is going to open it up if I have the DJ if they're bouncing back and forth to a host or a moderator so I feel like it's good there because they're usually good mic techniques strong than the mic in front of house VOG as long as I'm able to coach the person who's doing those it can do it but yes otherwise I've similarly found it Uh, especially with a show that's not as well rehearsed or people who aren't used to public speaking that it can bite you more with inconsistent levels. 

But those two specific use cases, I like it. 

Brian Maddox: Yeah, agreed. I agree 100%. 

Andy Leviss: and I will say again, on, like, yeah, like on a CLQL, it's always that trade off. It's, it's not a tool I will always use, and I think I agreed. It is a tool I will set up so I have it, but use as a problem solver, not as a, a go to. Um, and then going down the chain of, of like other, aside from like normal things like channel EQ and comp, uh, I will Particularly on a Yamaha, I almost always put a dynamic EQ. 

Whether it's on the input or the group can vary a bit. Uh, particularly because, uh, like if you're on a CL or QL you only have so many slots, so there I may do it on the group. Uh, part of the reason for that is, it is my personal opinion, although I No, I'm not the only person in this opinion that Yamaha's dedicated de esser mode for their channel dynamics is not very well functioning. 

Uh, a, a high shelf on that dynamic EQ works really well. And that's the other trick I'll throw out, which one of the guys at SSL taught me is that. Sibilance can be a lot, uh, broader and often lower than you think it is, and particularly if you've got multiple channels, or if you're doing it on a lav bus instead of on an individual input, a high shelf will probably get you 80 90 percent of the way there, with a lot less having to like drive it around differently for each person than a notch or a bell would. 

So I've become a big fan of, I use that like 2 band dynamic EQ, and I've got a low shelf to deal with any proximity if I'm using a directional mic, and that high shelf to deal with the de ass. And that gets me 90 percent of the way there. That's kind of where I land on, like, onboard stuff. Outboard, we've talked a bit about, and I know Aram has one, I'm not sure if anybody else does, the Yamaha RUiO 16, which is a little 16 channel Dante box that, as we've, I think I've talked before on the show, the reason I, I ended up getting one is because it's got a real quick bypass button that'll loop its Dante inputs right to its Dante outputs and take anything outboard out. 

You got to be careful there because depending on what you're doing with that box, that could bite you in different ways of like massive gain jumps or things like that, but as long as you're prepared for it, it, it can be a useful, uh, way to hedge your bets, um, and stuff I've been using outboard a lot is I will use a better de esser sometimes, um, and again, I'll usually do that on the group, um, which one I'm still kind of up in the air on. 

I've been kind of rotating through Waves, Simulants, um, I forget what the other Waves de esser is. and Isotopes all of which are like zero latency plugins and do different things and I'd be curious for folks who do here and and at home too who do use DeEsser plugins to which ones do you like and why. 

Um, the other thing I've been using a lot lately when I'm not on a RIVAGE or when I don't have an outboard Cedar, which Brian had mentioned, is isotope voice denoise, um, which is again, shockingly, zero latency, and it's a, it's a dynamic, it, I don't even fully understand how they're, I think it's very, very narrow notch gates that are kind of dynamically assigned, but we'd have to talk to one of the nerds who builds them to actually understand how these things work, but they're very good at figuring out what is voice and what is not, and pulling it out of there, and particularly for the price, uh, that iZotope plugin is astoundingly good. 

Like, is it as good as the Cedar? Not quite, but it costs a fraction less. And, yeah, I mean, Cedar, there is finally a plugin version that doesn't need dedicated UA hardware, and it's still, as plugins go, kind of obscenely expensive because it's Cedar. Um, now, Brian, I know you use the hardware DNS a lot, do you actually own one, or is that something you rent for gigs? 

Brian Maddox: I did actually, um, own one for a while. Um, I did eventually get rid of it, uh, because, uh, long story. Um, I worked, I worked for a company for about five years that had them in stock. And so then I, you know, they just, I just had them all the time. And so that's part of the reason why I got addicted. Um, and the, the, the dance, uh, the D A N S E, um, emulation in the Ravage, and I believe it's in the new DM7, uh, is a really, really good emulator for the Cedar, and Cedar Dunrite is, is an amazing, that, that's one that you can put on almost everything, and as long as you, you know, As long as you go easy on it, it will just make everything cleaner and be completely transparent. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, and two things I'll say on the on the dance, which is an amazing emulation and one of many, many reasons I love a RIVAGE anytime I can get it, is A, if you're in the latest updates to the version 6 software, they've gotten rid of the extremely disconcerting bug where after you hit the learn button on dance. 

Audio would not alter at all for a good 10 seconds or so, and it would definitely make you clench a bit. So if you have avoided using a Dancer because of that, they have acknowledged and fixed that in one of the recent updates. Um, and the other thing which, uh, I think Brian was kind of getting to in passing is that while the default settings work great if you know what frequency range you are trying to get rid of, you can narrow those handles in. 

And it becomes that much more powerful because the bands can be narrower. Um, and it also takes out the worry of hacking at something you don't want by mistake. And I mean, I've had shows where I've put it on 4099s on like wind and string instruments that were a little too far and picking up too much room. 

And yeah, if you tune it just to that part where you're getting the hiss or the buzz, like, it's also one of the best ways to remove bass amp buzz I've ever had. And 

Aram Piligian: I'm nodding vigorously because I've had to do that exact thing. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, and you just kind of like, particularly if you dial it in tight to the range that you want to make sure you're not like, losing the fundamental, I mean, you don't even really have to, but it gets that much better when you do. 

Um, yeah, that's been a big one. I'm curious if anybody's tried, I think, because Waves make a very, like, their spin on that now too. Has anybody used that? I think, I think we've got Homer, or have you, Michael? 

Michael Curtis: I have a handful of times and it's worked well. I get handful meaning two. So a couple of times 

Sean Walker: Is that the clarity? Is that what they call it? 

Michael Curtis: Uh, actually just the, the W84 WNS. 

Sean Walker: Oh, okay, I gotcha. 

Michael Curtis: So not, so it's like an older processor, but it's similar six band guy. Um, and it was on a Waves LV1 I was doing for a political gig and it was actually outdoor and it was more for wind noise and road noise rather than like a room, uh, and it was, it worked well. 

So. 

Andy Leviss: yeah, that was, that was going to be one of my next questions was because I know that's one of those things if I'm doing a recorder or stream, that's one of the first things I'm going to drop in. But I've also taken to doing it when I'm just doing in room sound too and I'm curious folks feelings on on that side of the question. 

Aram Piligian: It definitely, I find that it definitely, it actually does more of what you would hope a 5045 does than, than that. So, you know, helping get rid of. add the extra room that leaks in, um, just, you know, and it's a lot easier to ride the tightness control, at least in the Yamaha implementation of it. And, um, I have also found adjusting that range so that you're not necessarily getting rid of all the super high endy stuff, um, because if you let it, it will totally make it so that, uh, you know, when someone stops talking, it is. 

Almost dead silent and, uh, I know Brian has some thoughts on, uh, you know, it maybe shouldn't actually be dead silent when someone's not talking, um, in the room, but, uh, or for a stream, let's say, but the in room sound and, you know, what happens for the PA, it really does help clean up that too. 

Brian Maddox: Well, and that's, and that's, and I don't know how much time we have left, so I don't know if we can completely pivot into this, but yes, 

Sean Walker: Sure can. 

Brian Maddox: that, that you, that you want to watch out for is when you're doing a recording or especially when you're doing a stream, like we've talked about all the different ways that we can, clean up lectern mics and clean up lav mics so that it's like all we're hearing is what they're saying and we're hearing nothing else. 

Um, but then in a stream that ends up sounding really weird because now we don't hear any of the room. We don't, we have no sense that this person is speaking to a live audience. It sounds like they're in a studio. And that's where you, that's where you start to dial in your, your ambient mics. The great thing is that if you can control all of the ambience that you're getting from the talent mics, then you can add exactly how much ambience you want to give that still a natural sound of people are in a room, you know, you now have control over it as opposed to just a bunch of stuff leaking into the, the lectern mic. 

And it also just means that all of that extra, um, ambient sound. One of the things that took me 25 years to, to, to realize was The ambient sound in the room that was coming back into my lectern mic was being re amplified back into the room, creating more of itself and coming back into the lectern mic. I mean, it's not true feedback, but The amount of ambience that's being produced out of the PA adds to that ambient sound in the room, which you already have plenty of because the room is already reflecting. 

Uh, but yeah, the more we clean these things up, the more we really have to look at making sure that we have some kind of ambient something to, to kind of fill in the holes for, for streaming and to some degree for records. 

Andy Leviss: You know, that brings us perfectly to the next question I was going to ask on the other subject that I wanted us all to talk about, but looking at the clock, we're already almost at an hour here, so I'm going to say, let's pause it for this week, and we'll come back and continue this in part two next week, uh, and on that note then, uh, Good to have you back with us this week after your week away, Sean, and good to have you back in the guest chair again, Aram, after joining us last week. 

Thanks to Brian and Michael for hanging out with us today. 

Sean Walker: And thanks to Allen and Heath and RCF for supporting us and making it happen. We appreciate all you guys. And that's the pod. See you next week.

Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green