Signal To Noise Podcast
The Signal to Noise podcast features conversations with people from all corners of the live sound industry, from FOH and monitor engineers, tour managers, Broadway sound designers, broadcast mixers, system engineers, and more.
Signal To Noise Podcast
264. Inside The Sound Design For A Unique Broadway Musical
In Episode 264, Sean and Andy talk with two members of the production team for the Broadway musical How to Dance in Ohio, sound designer Connor Wang and Liz Weber, who was a member of the Access Team for the show and also works as a sound engineer. The musical is based on the Peabody Award-winning documentary about the challenges and triumphs of a group of autistic young adults working toward their first spring formal dance, notably starring actual autistic actors as the characters. Connor and Liz talk about the unique approaches the show took to make sure it was sensory-friendly for both the cast and the audience. This episode is sponsored by Allen & Heath and RCF.
The production also made strides in making every aspect of the show accessible to those with autism, both on stage and in the audience, for which it won a Special Award for Authentic Autistic Representation Team from the Drama Desk Awards in July 2024. Connor and Liz also discuss the use of assistive listening devices, headphones, and the careful design of sound effects to accommodate individuals with sound sensitivities, and highlight the importance of authentic casting and representation in the show. Further, they focus on the challenges and considerations of mixing sound for a theater production generally and How to Dance in Ohio specifically, including the importance of creating a full mix for the performers on stage without letting volume levels get out of control. Liz (they/them) also shares a bit about their work as a sound engineer for music venues and how the sensory issues their autism brings to the table influence their approach to mixing, proving as much a benefit as it can be a challenge.
Episode Links:
Connor Wang On Instagram
Liz Weber On Instagram
Connor Wang Designs
Meet the Folks Making How to Dance in Ohio Accessible at Every Performance
How to Dance in Ohio Access Team Drama Desk Award Acceptance Speech
“How to Make a Sound System More Accessible”
How to Dance in Ohio Performance At The Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade
How to Dance in Ohio (Original Documentary)
Episode 264 Transcript
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Signal To Noise, Episode 264 Inside The Sound Design For A Unique Broadway Musical
Note: This is an automatically generated transcript, so there might be mistakes--if you have any notes or feedback on it, please send them to us at signal2noise@prosoundweb.com so we can improve the transcripts for those who use them!
Voiceover: You’re listening to Signal to Noise, part of the ProSoundWeb podcast network, proudly brought to you this week by the following sponsors:
Allen & Heath, introducing their new CQ series, a trio of compact digital mixers for musicians, bands, audio engineers, home producers, small venues, and installers that puts ease of use and speed of setup at the heart of the user experience.
RCF, who has just unveiled their new TT+ Audio brand, including the high performance GTX series line arrays and the GTS29 subwoofer. Be sure to check it out at rcf-usa.com. That's rcf-usa.com.
Music:“Break Free” by Mike Green
Andy Leviss: Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Signal to Noise. I'm your host, Andy Leviss, and with me is the cookies to my cream, Mr. Sean Walker. What's up, Sean?
Sean Walker: Oh, you get me every time with those. You son of a bitch. I'm great, dude. How are you?
Andy Leviss: I mean, it's better than when I was ending every episode with "Up is Louder". Like, that got old fast. I feel like this has some evergreen potential.
Sean Walker: I'm great. I'm a, you know, we're, we're in the thick of it for concert and festival season here in Seattle. So I'm cross eyed, sunburned, exhausted, and super thankful for all the work and having a blast, dude. You know? Yeah. We're, uh, asking way too much of our little PA and, you know, And the team is running around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying to get all the shows done.
But what a, what a blessing to have the work and, you know, have people keep calling and we're just thankful and stoked.
Andy Leviss: That's awesome. Uh, yeah, I've been, for better or worse, been in a lull for the most part the last couple weeks and catching up on stuff at home and stuff for us here on the podcast, which has been Been pretty good.
Sean Walker: That's awesome. Yeah. Thank you for, you know, dealing with all the podcast stuff so I can run around like my hair on fire.
Andy Leviss: right. I mean, podcast doesn't produce itself. Alas, things we've learned. Who knew?
Sean Walker: that is true. If it was solely left up to me, it'd just be a heaping dumpster fire over there someplace and Andy'd be looking at me going, "Man, I could sort that out for you..."
Andy Leviss: On the other hand, if you weren't here, everybody would just have to listen to me ramble on even more. So it works out well...
Sean Walker: Go team go, dude. Go team go.
Andy Leviss: Um, let's see other housekeeping stuff. Uh, I, no, I guess this'll probably, this'll probably air by the time folks are already in the networking workshop with Mike Dias, uh, but that said, if, uh, if you're like, what's that workshop, look in the show notes for last week's episode, even if you've missed the first one, there is still a couple more sessions to go after this one, and you can email Mike and he'll catch you up on what you missed, so, you know, we'd love to see you there for that.
Uh...if you don't normally...already subscribe in your podcasting app, hit that subscribe button and give us like a nice five star review and help other people find the show.
Sean Walker: And only five star reviews, you can keep those one star shits to yourself, dog. Email us directly. Cuss us out. That's fine. Five stars only. You know what I mean?
Andy Leviss: Yep. Signal 2 Noise. That's Signal the number 2 Noise at ProSoundWeb. com with feedback, uh, suggestions for guests, whether it's like, "Hey, I think I'd make an awesome guest," or if you know somebody else you think would make an awesome guest, uh, hit us up. If you like what we're doing, we love to hear that. If you don't like what we're doing, we'll drink after we read your email.
Um,
Sean Walker: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, if you're not into it, just start it with, "You son of a bitch!" and we'll just know to hit the trash can button and not even read it. You'll be fine.
Andy Leviss: yeah. Well that, you know, that housekeeping out of the way, I want to dive in because we've got two guests with us this week, so I want to make sure we have time to like really dig into this. Uh,
Sean Walker: Double your pleasure, double your fun. Is that where we're at?
Andy Leviss: yeah, so why don't we start with, uh, with Liz. Do you want to introduce yourself, uh, give us your pronouns, tell us a little bit about who you are and what led you to talking to us today?
Broad strokes. We'll get into specifics later.
Liz Weber: Um, hi, I'm Liz, Liz Weber. Um, I am a freelance stage manager and audio engineer. I'm primarily based out of the New York area, but I travel and, um, we are interspersing this connection, for lack of a better word, because I'm on the autism spectrum and I was part of a really, really innovative show on Broadway called How to Dance in Ohio, where Connor Wang, who's with us today, was the sound designer.
And, um, Yeah, I, that, that's that.
Andy Leviss: Cool. And we'll, we'll introduce Connor in a second. And I just, Liz, like, like I said, part of the reason I wanted to reach out and bring Liz on this episode was cause we're going to talk a bunch about how to dance in Ohio and how the two different departments that Liz and Connor were on on that show work together.
And I think also because Liz, you have this background in audio, you can speak a little to that. And I think we'll also circle back around. And there's some other related things about like working on the autism spectrum and audio that I know like, I've talked about on the show before from my own perspective, and I'm really interested to get somebody else's perspective on that, too.
So I think we'll try and circle back around to that.
Liz Weber: Totally!
Andy Leviss: But uh, before we do that, uh, Connor, why don't you introduce yourself?
Connor Wang: Hello, my name is Connor Wang. Uh, I am a freelance sound designer from Des Moines, Iowa, currently based, uh, Chicago, New York, bounce back and forth quite a bit. Um, mostly, primarily work on new musicals, and I was the sound designer for How to Dance in Ohio, where, uh, uh, I know Liz.
Andy Leviss: Cool. And, and that was, was that your first Broadway show as designer?
Connor Wang: That was my first Broadway show as a lead sound designer. It was a very exciting time.
Andy Leviss: Cool. Well, I mean, that seems like a place to start. Why don't we just start real briefly, like how, how'd that come about?
Connor Wang: That came about by way of our fantastic director, Sammy Canold, who brought me on as a team member. I met Sammy doing, hmm, Lempicka, which was also a show this season. Lempicka was, the first iteration of it on stage was at Williamstown Theatre Festival and she, Sammy was the associate director. I was mixing the show at the time and we kind of got to know each other.
We did another production, um, with Solea Pfeiffer at Audible, Mineta Lane. And then from there, she, she had a bigger project and I'm thankful she brought me on to that. So, uh, I'm here by way of Sammy Canold.
Andy Leviss: That's awesome. And it's, I mean, it's great seeing, like, I mean, I know your name in passing and like seeing you break into that. And it's, that's one of the complaints always about Broadway is it's like, it's the same three or four names over and over again. And to see new people coming in and doing as having seen the show as fantastic a job as you did was, you know, like, that was really exciting.
Connor Wang: Oh, I appreciate that. Yeah. It's, um, I've had good mentorship over the years and, you know, a lot of this is. Luck based and hard work. So equal parts luck and hard work got me here.
Andy Leviss: So I think I did, like I said, I do want to get into some of the specifics, uh, like challenges, accommodations that were particular to how to dance in Ohio on that subject. But first do you want to give us like the quick and dirty overview of just the broader, like the more usual questions of like what you were going for with the sound design on it or anything like that you think folks would be interested in
Connor Wang: Yeah. I mean, from the audience perspective, the main sound system, I think is, was very similar to what you'd see in most Broadway houses. Um, the more interesting parts, I think, in regards to this conversation are probably about the onstage foldback approach and then the, um, thinking about how to present a more.
Phrasing this is always interesting. Um, giving a secondary listening experience for those who are sensitive to sound was very important to me because I, I know, um, and I had experience with the out of town tryout. Um, I watched some audience members who were sensitive to sound kind of approach the show and listen to it differently.
Some of them had, um, essentially earmuffs or ear protection on, and I don't think this show is, was particularly loud, but you know, there, This is a spectrum and a range of, uh, folks who, who have different sound sensitivities. So both in our cast and our approach to how do we feed them the information from the band that they need in order to perform?
And then, uh, for our audience members, how do we give both the traditional listening experience and, and an alternative, uh, by way of headphones, uh, uh, accomplishing all of those things together was really important. Uh, the global approach to the design.
Andy Leviss: Got it. So before we dig into that a little bit, I think we should, because I know Sean didn't see the show and I'm sure a major chunk of the folks listening didn't see the show. So
Sean Walker: What do you mean? You just naturally assume that I'm the ding dong that didn't go to the theater? That's, that's, thanks a lot, dude.
Andy Leviss: I know what a community is for you. So I sit here in New York and so I made an assumption. Um, I know, Liz, maybe do you want to give us a quick overview of what How to Dance in Ohio was and kind of fill folks in on that and then I think that'll inform explaining why we're talking about the things we are.
Liz Weber: Sure. Yeah, How to Dance in Ohio was a really, is a really wonderful story that was, uh, based on a real documentary of a real cast of people. Um, in Columbus, Ohio, there was a real practice called Amigo Family Counseling, which the main focus of this organization was to help support people of all ages on the autism spectrum get through social challenges.
And so in the documentary, um, you sort of see some of these humans navigating. life and they are presented with the challenge of a sort of romantic or quasi platonic dance to go to with, uh, their companions and friends and it's a really charming story that was brought into a musical to Broadway by Rebecca Greer Milosik and, um, Jacob Yandura and they are really a wonderful dynamic of people.
They wrote so much love into this story. It was a show that had Seven autistic actors making their Broadway debuts for the first time. In mass and the entire show was centered on disability and how to make people with disabilities thrive in that community. I was on the um, stage management team and the accessibility team. So I really worked quite a lot with making sure these accommodations were accessible to all and to making sure that the audience felt comfortable, that the cast felt comfortable, that the design team felt comfortable. And that all of that was incorporated into the fabric of the show.
Sean Walker: And for those of us not in the theater world, what is the accessibility team on a show like that?
Liz Weber: Well, we were the first accessibility team ever on a Broadway show. Um, there's never been a lot of attention to people with disabilities in whatever minority in that scale. Um, the accessibility team was a five person team with lots and lots of collaboration across all the departments, where we had both an audience facing role of sort of like, Like making sure there were audience accommodations like fi fidget toys and sunglasses and um, Connor Wang's accessibility, auditory headphone things.
I don't think there was a great name for those, but all of those were part of that to make sure the audience was accommodated. It was also making sure. There were accommodations for people backstage, so it was sometimes a little bit of a, like a, not quite HR, but like a, hey, let's take care of the company role.
It was also a, we were dealing with brand partnerships, we were dealing with people who wanted to promote the show, and maybe we weren't so fond of their, uh, parameters or ideas. There were so many different, um, subsections and niches to what the accessibility role on that show did. And, um, yeah, it's basically, yeah, it was, and we were from all sorts of different departments.
It was, we had people from the producers on the team, people from the music department on the team. I was on stage management. So it was like, Really, uh, a collaborative work.
Sean Walker: Dude, that's cool. And so you had fidget toys, you had sunglasses at night, Conor Wang awesome ears you're handing out so that everybody could like, experience this however they needed to do it, or whatever. Whatever was cozy for them, so it was cozy. That's cool,
Liz Weber: Mm
Sean Walker: That's awesome.
Andy Leviss: and I think that's something to dig into and maybe we can start with the audience perspective of that because there's, there are definitely like adapted performances specifically like marketed towards like autistic, uh, audience members from time to time where usually like I know like the dynamic range of the show will be pulled down a little bit and Sometimes lighting will be modified or not, like effects can get left out or, or tweaked for those performances, but it'll be a, like, a special thing, and I think, I'm assuming, and tell me if I'm wrong, that it was particularly given the content of the show, the nature of the show, and the audience that was both expected to come and that, that the show wanted to welcome in, it seems like y'all put much more of a focus on making sure that that was the case for every performance, not just For like special performances,
Liz Weber: Every performance was designed to be sensory friendly. And like, in tech, we would all be collaborating. We would say, oh, this sound doesn't feel great to us. Um, And then Connor would be like, okay, let's get rid of that sound. It's going to cause someone else a problem beyond the four of you. Um, and it, it was a really, really awesome collaborative experience in that way.
Sean Walker: That's pretty sweet. What was it like to wear Conor Wang awesome ears and hit her this show?
Connor Wang: We really need to find a good name for this. And that was, that was, you know, this was a, yeah, yeah.
Liz Weber: The Connor Wang awesome ears.
Sean Walker: Yeah, dude. Let's roll the sentence. It's fine. You're fine.
Andy Leviss: so yeah, so I don't know a ton about exactly what you did. I know a little bit that like Liz gave me a rundown, but I guess for folks listening, we should probably say like the kind of standard for a musical for like what an audience can have to listen to the show is like a listen assist system.
That's whether it's like FM based infrared or inductive loop, it's fairly bandwidth limited. More often than not, mono, so some of them have stereo and basically optimized as much as can be, although honestly not even that great for those who are hard of hearing to let them kind of bump things up with a little bit of clarity.
And so I guess the twofold question there is, did you have one of those systems as well on top of whatever else you were doing, or did you kind of roll it on to one, and then what, what was it?
Connor Wang: Yeah. So you're right. Every, every Broadway theater, there's a, there's a legal requirement to have a ADA compliant. uh, assistive listening devices. And typically those are meant, um, you know, they're designed for those that are hard of hearing. So folks that who, who are going to have trouble understanding the words or who, um, need that extra support.
Um, and usually that mix, uh, from my perspective is a little bit more vocal forward, so people can catch all of the lyrics and all, all of those words. We did have that in our theater and I would say most of the listening devices were that. And this was a, I think for the. For our production, a great experiment to see if alongside that we can provide a more accessible listening experience for every production.
One where the mix is more intentional. It's not something that's drastically different in terms of, uh, being vocal forward versus having, uh, or compressed in a, in a drastic way. Um, we had an IR based, uh, assisted listening system for those that were hard of hearing, and then an FM based, um, uh, receiver that we plugged Audio Technica ATH M50Xs into, so they were over ear headphones, uh, plugged into these, uh, receivers and folks in the audience could adjust the volume as needed, but we were in control of that mix and throughout the tech process and preview process, we would lay ears on that mix to make sure that it was, it was a listening experience worthy of something that represents the show well, but in a more accessible way.
Andy Leviss: Got it. And, uh, and so you said it wasn't overly heavy, heavily compressed. Was it just, you just kind of reigning in the dynamics a little bit or was it like just a fairly full mix and by nature of giving like audience members control over it was what gave them the
Connor Wang: Yeah, I would say it was a fairly full mix. It was twofold. One, just using over ear headphones in this process made things more of a controlled listening experience for the user. So when we say audio sound sensitivities, that that's not just the PA and what's happening, uh, through what we're providing.
It's, it's people, hundreds of people clapping around you. It's, uh, rambunctious audiences cheering. So that was one thing kind of isolating. Helping isolate the experience for the user just by way of over your headphones. And then the mix itself was, I think, robust, but paid more attention to some of these sound effects, car crashes, nightclub, subwoofer sounds, get dialed back just a little bit so that it's not, um, what, what we learned throughout the process is those kinds of triggers were, um, more tame.
You still get the experience, but it's not the same as it is for a typical Broadway audience.
Sean Walker: And are you doing like a virtual sound check to work on that mix and get it, get it where you want it to be or is that just as you're going through rehearsals working through it or kind of both or how does that, how do you make that sounds like probably a broadcast mix with a few modifiers, right?
That's A pretty, pretty bangin mix, but just take the super impact car crashes down. Is that something you're sittin at Virtual Soundcheck workin on?
Connor Wang: virtual soundcheck. I wanted to do it in context. So I wanted to do, we laid in a bass mix throughout the tech process. I walked around with an iPad. And sat in different house seats, listened to the main PA, listened to the experience in headphones, and made adjustments. And then once folks got into the room, I adjusted again, so that way I had a good sense of what this felt like, um, when, when we were in a live mode.
And having the iPad with me really lets me finesse that and get very particular about this mix. Um, the other thing is we had, in our accessibility team, we had team members. Who are on the autism spectrum, give this a listen and then give me their feedback of what their experience was like. So it wasn't just my opinion and my opinion only.
I'm, I am a neurotypical person and this was not necessarily a mix made for me. So getting feedback from our accessibility team was important.
Andy Leviss: That's, that's great. And that's, I mean, that's one of the points they make during like the pre-show, like opening of the show, is that you need to get that feedback from so many people because. As the saying goes, if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. Everybody's a little bit different, everybody has different needs, so Even, even if you were on the spectrum and like did need those accommodations, you still need to reach out to like those other folks.
And it's, it's like awesome that you had that, that like support team in place to help with that. That's really cool.
And so you looked like you were going to say something. So, so I was, I was waiting for you.
Connor Wang: yeah, yeah. I mean, one other thing about this is the idea came up because of a team member, Nicole, who was on our music department when we were at Syracuse doing this show for the first time. I, I kind of kept tabs on Nicole and said, how are you feeling about this? Because, you know, you are a resource and you're a force for good in regards to this show.
And there were times when I saw her wearing, um, hearing, essentially hearing protection for folks who You can imagine something you would use to mow the lawn or a drummer wearing this to play drums. It was like that. And I, uh, I knew her listening experience was going to be more muffled than anything else.
And this accessible listening experience was something that could kind of blend two worlds, one of hearing protection and the other of an isolated mix. So, uh, thank you, Nicole. Thank you, accessibility team for inspiring this.
Andy Leviss: um, and so with, with that system in place and the ability to do that, did you still also like, make adjustments to how you like design the more general non headphone experience of the show compared to what you might have done. Were that not foremost in your mind or did that kind of free you to do a little more of whatever you might have otherwise wanted with the general design because you had that to fall back on
Connor Wang: Yeah, the general design, I think I took the usual approach. Uh, if I were to design any other musical, it was a pretty standard approach. I think I erred on the side of. The mix being more tame in the room, especially throughout the tech process, throughout previews, that mix started to get pumped up. And we've, we found the pocket hopefully with our audiences, as we learned throughout previews, what the audiences were appreciating.
Um, but when it came to sound effects, like Liz said, there were times when there's a moment in the show where, um, our Meredith is on stage in a diner and, and one of her triggers is the sound of a, Order up bell at the diner. So that really high pitched kind of thing that goes off whenever food is ready.
And the intention was to kind of showcase how that would be an uncomfortable thing. I, uh, and when we first started using that sound effect, some of our accessibility team members said, that's a sound that like is actually a trigger. So finding the balance of showing that this is a trigger and then also taming it down to
Andy Leviss: not triggering everybody
Connor Wang: making this an accessible sound effect is a really fascinating place to It's a very, uh, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a balancing act. And I think having resources in the room to say, yep, this is an appropriate level and what we're going after and what we're achieving are in line with the ethos of the show.
Um, but in terms of music mix and band mix and where we place the vocals, I would say it was a very standard approach to my taste for musicals.
Andy Leviss: And like, I mean, on that, like using that sound effect as an example, like what, what were some of the, to like thread that needle? Was it, was it about level, like tonality, like just how much you used it
Connor Wang: Yeah, uh, at first I thought it was level and then having discussed it more, I think it was about, it was about frequency. So some of the, um,
Liz Weber: I think it was about the high end frequency of that bell.
Connor Wang: yeah, the resonance.
Liz Weber: because it wasn't quite an audio terminology that, uh, Um, and I looked at it and I was kind of like, huh, no. I don't think I know what this means. And then it was, oh, it's very high pitched. It's too resonant. And that was the translation.
It took a music person into me as just random tech body also on the spectrum to translate that conversation over to Connor.
Connor Wang: yeah. So high, high frequency cuts, making like a first one establishing. So we know what the sound is and then falling into a more artistic approach where we're kind of knocking down some of the high end, but reverb so that it's, it's this lasting thing, uh, throughout the scene was, was I think the sweet spot in.
In that moment of the show.
Andy Leviss: Gotcha. That's clever too. I like that. Like you establishing it, how you want it to sound and then kind of playing with it to both. Yeah. That's it. To like simultaneously address the issue so that it doesn't become too much of a trigger, but also artistically emphasize that it is a trigger. That's. Yeah.
Yeah,
Connor Wang: Yeah.
Andy Leviss: having seen the show, that's one of those things, like, I didn't notice in the moment, but now that we're talking about it and thinking back, I'm like, oh yeah, that was, like, I remember that from seeing the show now, um, and so I think it was really successful as the person in here who's only seen it once.
Connor Wang: I, I'm glad it works. I'm glad, uh, you know, uh, it was a sweet moment I think in terms of sound effects. That whole scene was like my, my baby. That was my child for showcasing, uh, audio auditory triggers and also our, the character on
Liz Weber: about the,
Connor Wang: on.
Liz Weber: yeah, tell them about the, how you did the like swoosh when Meredith put the headphones
Connor Wang: Yeah. For me, that was like a very meta moment because we were both for the audience trying to provide this accessible listening experience, and then on stage you saw an actor.
Going through a moment where these bells were a trigger for her, and, and she asks her father, can I wear my headphones now? We designed a sound effect where the, uh, patron sounds, the diner sounds kind of grew a little bit while she's asking to put these headphones on, and as she puts the headphones on, we, uh, Effectively tried to recreate what it sounds like when you activate noise cancellation.
Uh, so just kind of the swooshing out of pure silence for her, her comfort zone in, in isolation. Um, and, uh, the representation of sensitory, sensitive sensitivity to sounds and the use of headphones, I think, um, was special for me. That, that was a sound effect I was really proud of.
Andy Leviss: that was, it was, uh, you should be. It was, it was very well done in the moment, having seen it. And, I mean, that's one of the things I know as an audience member who is on the spectrum watching the show, I found so powerful about the whole show, is that It introduced like a whole wide range of spectrum and like really hammered home that point of there's similarities between lots of autistic people, there's differences.
And these are some of the things that I know like even for me at home, like I saw it with my wife and it opened up conversations for us where she was like, I, like, I didn't realize like that's how you might feel in a certain situation, but seeing it up there kind of made it a little more obvious. And, and that opened up the conversation too, of, Well, just because you saw it up there, don't assume that that's how I necessarily respond to it.
But it's similar enough to start the conversation and like, it was really like, I mean, we're both, you know, jaded theater people. Like I, you know, we're, we're both, you know, Broadway sound engineers ourselves. And like, we both had moments of the show that like, we choked up a little bit watching it because it was just, it was both great to see that stuff.
And then also. Which will kind of bring us back to the other side of the design we wanted to talk about. The fact that there were so many cast members who were actually on the spectrum, like it's, we're so used to unpopular culture. Actors doing their best version of autistic to play an autistic character and some of them hit the nail better than others.
Some of them are just horrendously offensive or just like playing into the stereotypes and seeing so much genuine representation in so many different ways up there was really, really cool and really powerful. Um, I know that like Liz, like we, we messaged after I saw it and I, and I asked him like how much of like the different stims that they each had was, you know, was the actor just bringing some of themselves into it?
How much were acting choices? Was it a mix of both? Which I know we talked about that, but I guess since I asked it here, we might as well ask it again for folks at home.
Liz Weber: I think the really interesting thing about the entire process was because every prior attempt of autism on Broadway Don't need to name the shows, but we know. Uh, every prior attempt has not used authentic casting at all, and the show makes it a very clear point that you've met one autistic person, you've met one person.
And so, um, I think for everyone it was a learning experience. I think there were different processes that were experimented with for a while, like, oh, they will need a stim toy, where can they get a stim toy so it's accessible to them off the stage as soon as they run off? Like, these were questions that were unexplored and then they became explored as the situation sort of, you know, evolved.
Unfolded, so, and yeah, like, actors were stimming naturally on stage, but they were also actors, they were very much playing a character, and the character may have had a moment where they were having the starts of a meltdown, and the actor was obviously not having a meltdown in those moments, and that's like a distinction too, so there, it was all real, it was all based on truth.
It was also very much a structured show with characters who had a plot and a dynamic, and they were based on real people too, so you didn't even wanna, the, like, there was that element of, oh, this is, these are real people, so, all of it was authentic, all of it was true, and then some of it obviously was, this is a Broadway show, we do it eight times a week, so, I think that's that.
Andy Leviss: Yeah, I know as, as an audience member, one of the things I found really fantastic about it that struck home to me. As how you could tell there was a genuine level of representation and understanding that other shows, movies, TV shows, whatever may have lacked was the depth of like when they'd have like a group therapy session, if you looked around at like each like each person in it, the each other thing, you could see how they react and like and whether it was stimming or just whatever they were doing in that moment seemed genuine in the way that an actor who was more neurotypical trying to play autistic I don't think would have known to fill those things in in like other moments when they're not the focus and they're not monologuing and it didn't feel like it turned on and off it felt like it was just naturally like the like this is everybody who was involved in this clearly understood it much more realistically I guess is the
Sean Walker: All right, two questions. You said eight shows a week on Broadway. Does that mean there are no days off and there are two on one day or does that mean that there are two a days for several days and you get a day off because I can't imagine running that many people that long with no days off?
Liz Weber: One day off a week, double shows on Wednesdays and Saturdays.
Sean Walker: that.
Andy Leviss: Yeah, and that'll vary a little bit show to show. Some shows won't do a Wednesday matinee, but will do two Saturday, two Sunday. If you're a show produced by the Weisslers, your timing gets all sorts of wacky because they try and do shows when nobody else is, so they'll do a Monday show and be off on Tuesday, and they'll do the evil brilliant thing they do is the 2.
30 matinee on Saturdays. Cause they're close enough to the TKTS discount same day tickets booth that they figure if you get there, you get up to the front of the line, what do you got? Well, it's 157. You've got like three minutes you could run to this show, this show, this show, or Chicago's at 230. Where's that?
It's a block that way. We'll take it. But yeah, typically it's, it's six days a week. Two of the days double up.
Sean Walker: It's a pretty ripping schedule, dude.
Andy Leviss: It can
Sean Walker: How, how did that work with, uh, the unique cast and crew that was happening? Was that an extra challenge on top or no?
Liz Weber: I think it was more that a lot of the cast and company was fairly young, so not, a lot of these people had not been in runs that were this long. They had not been in a run over a month, perhaps, or whatever. Um, so I think it was, you know, A lot of, oh, this is what's happening, we're on Broadway, we have to do the Broadway thing now.
And, so everyone made it, everyone made it, but there was definitely A lot of people working really, really hard and over exerting themselves and getting really tired because this was a new experience for everyone.
Connor Wang: I'll, I'll add that in terms of, um, offstage casting, so swings, understudies and standbys, there was a lot of intention put into having the right amount of people in the building at the same time. Um, this was a nationwide search for, uh, autistic actors, so finding an offstage company who we could bring in and who could play autistic actors.
Multiple roles within that core seven group was important because if you were to get 30 minutes away from downbeat and you needed, someone was, was out sick or an injury happened, we needed to be able to quickly say, okay, now these two people are going to go in for this role, or We're gonna, you know, this person was already called in for a pre pre planned out, but we'll move them over and put one of our understudies in.
It was very intentional to make sure we had covers of all of our, all of our actors all the time, but our core seven, because they are autistic individuals, we needed to make sure that that casting was there.
Liz Weber: The swings were also autistic, so that was important for everyone.
Sean Walker: All right. And for the rest of us non Broadway people, what is a swing?
Liz Weber: An understudy.
Sean Walker: Copy that.
Andy Leviss: Connor, you look like you wanted to like specify that a little
Connor Wang: Yeah! Well, a swing is an understudy. A lot of times understudies are ensemble members that are on stage that can get moved up to a principal actor when someone's out. A swing, uh, a swing is an actor who knows multiple tracks and whose job it is to is not to be on stage all of the time. They, they are on call.
It's like an on call, uh, actor to go in each night. And then standbys are actors who are in the building. Should an injury happen or somebody gets sick at intermission, then they can, uh, jump in to the show. Swings are also in the building too, but, um, kind of differentiating between understudy being an onstage cast member that can go move, move into a principal role.
Versus someone whose job it is, is to always be ready to jump in.
Sean Walker: So behind the scenes, if there are seven actors, there's like 14 there's a bunch of extra people that already know all these lines, all these parts that can just like, at a moment's notice, drop into a specific role or some of them too many roles. Is that what you're saying?
Connor Wang: All of our covers covered many roles. Nobody, nobody was here
Sean Walker: That's a lot to learn, dude.
Connor Wang: Yeah.
Andy Leviss: Yeah, swinging
Liz Weber: spreadsheets.
Andy Leviss: yeah, swinging is one of the hardest jobs in acting, like I, props to all my friends who do it on so, so many shows. And, because often you'll, not only do you know all these roles, but you will, like, it could be a half hour to the, sometimes it's ten minutes before the show that something happened, we suddenly have to switch, you may have not been going on, or you may have been going on for this role, and suddenly it's like, you know what, change of plans, you're doing that role, or you get into the crazy wild world of split tracks, which is, we're short people who can cover this, so you're doing half of this person's normal role, and half of that person's normal role.
And I guess that's one question on this show in particular is, did they, because of the nature of the show, but the size of the show, did they do anything to minimize the need for split tracks or did that tend to happen?
Connor Wang: I don't, I don't think we minimized the need for split tracks. I just, I don't know if we came across, uh, a scenario where we need, needed that. You know, our, our run was short lived. So had we run longer, I'm sure we would have been in that situation, but you're right that it is, uh, an interesting, it would be interesting to see what a split track would have looked like.
Uh, given that the, we didn't have a huge ensemble, like we didn't have 20 ensemble members, uh, but our principal actors, should we have had to split track them, it would have been like, you're going to sing this vocal part and then remember that you have to take this prop off stage to this spot as you would have if you were playing another character.
Um, I think it would have been very complicated, but, um, I don't, I don't know that there was any, uh, Special planning around, around that.
Andy Leviss: Copy. Well, and now that we've delved into the cast a little bit, I think the next subject to get back to is monitoring. And I know we've. Talked on the show before about how monitoring is usually done on Broadway. And like when Jess Paz was on, we talked a bit about how lots of shows don't do vocals more and more today we're giving in and doing vocals and monitors and that whole thing.
But yeah, I mean, Connor, why don't you talk a little bit about both how you specifically approach it on this show and how that might've differed from, from approaches on other shows that you've
Connor Wang: Yeah. Uh, the core of it was starting where I would start with most other shows. Um, I think what we learned in Syracuse. Uh, the Out of Town production was that what was going to help us in terms of on stage level because we have cast members, um, who did have sound sensitivities. We wanted to make sure that the, my core ethos around stage fullback was coverage and not like making coverage, not volume.
So having more speakers in various places, so that way we could keep the level. Sensible, but make sure we're hitting all of the pockets on stage. That was the approach. So we had speakers built into the deck. We had speakers on lighting booms facing on stage. We had some overheads. I think the, there was just a lot of intention placed.
Into coverage, having learned from our out of town experience, um, that and like EQing the speakers to make sure that they, uh, high frequencies, we, we couldn't start ringing in any crazy particular way. We also on this show and most of my shows, it vocals on stage, um, don't necessarily help us. And I think this was a show that required a lot of vocal blend and would have.
muddled things up quite a bit if we did vocals in the foldback. So, uh, no, no cast vocals on, on stage. Um, but a lot of, you know, a lot of speakers kind of scattered about the set.
Andy Leviss: Copy. And I mean, just, just for the nerds among us. Well, what I, and I guess we can talk speakers front of house too. You want to give us the quick. The quick like tech spec rundown on the
Connor Wang: Yeah. Uh, main PA was mostly Meyer. There was a 12, a big center array of 12 Lina boxes, I believe. Uh, and then main left and right. Per set per section of seating. So orchestra, mezzanine balcony, UPQs for the orchestra, Ultra X40s, which is a speaker that I really like for the mezzanine and then another set of UPQs up.
Top for the balcony. We, uh, you know, that's the Belasco doesn't have a lot of room for subs, but we hung three 900s on the apron truss, which I think did the job. I do wish we had some. Some big subs and on the main seating, uh, and then delay rings per section. But at its core was a Meijer system. On stage, it was mostly D& B E4s and E5s because they're so compact, but, uh, coverage, their coverage pattern is great.
And then EAW, UB12s off stage. A lot of little boxes for this show though, aside from that big center cluster and the UPQs. It was a lot of small boxes.
Andy Leviss: Yeah. I mean, that's always the trick with any Broadway house is getting a big sound in not a big amount of space.
Connor Wang: Yeah. Uh, yeah.
Sean Walker: Would you say that, sorry go ahead,
Andy Leviss: no, you go.
Sean Walker: would you say that that's a reasonably typical rig for a show like this? For us that aren't in theater?
Connor Wang: I would say that is pretty typical. If, if the house was wider, a lot of times you will see an array, uh, you can try to fit an array left and right of the proscenium, but, uh, with a Broadway house where seating goes from anywhere from like 500 to 200 Uh, Andy, you can help me out with this. You know, they don't, they're, they're not like 2000, 3000 seat houses.
So, um,
Andy Leviss: most, usually like 15, 16, I think would be the largest.
Connor Wang: So line array is, uh, If the house is big enough and can accommodate them, a lot of times you'll see, a lot of times you'll see in a line array proscenium left and right, sometimes on like a balcony truss. But, um, a lot of delay speakers in Broadway houses because of these major overhangs and, and usually the need to get sound back to your front of house mixer, who is, you know, Oftentimes at the back of the theater or up in the mezzanine.
Sean Walker: That explains a lot about Andy's uncanny obsession with underbox.
Connor Wang: Oh yeah, they're so important.
Andy Leviss: Live and
Sean Walker: he's been on a freaking tirade about underbox for like the last, what, two decades at this point? I don't know. Just like, you cannot get him off it, and I was like, I don't understand what your deal with underbox is bro, but if you get a mix on it and that's like half your show and half your audience is under there, I get how important it is now.
Connor Wang: Yep.
Andy Leviss: this a moment, uh, before, before we dive into a couple other questions, we should shout out Cassie.
Connor Wang: Oh yeah, Cassie. Cassie is such a gem and we're so lucky to have had Cassie. Um, not only, you know, staffing this show, a lot of, you know,
Andy Leviss: Connor. For the folks who aren't me, who is Cassie?
Connor Wang: Cassie, Cassie Gibbons, Broadway sound engineer, uh, who, you know, was our A1 on our show. Cassie's experience is vast, from mixing Frozen on Broadway, Cassie did the original Newsies, Um, the Hugh Jackman show, uh, not the Greatest Showman, it is the music man.
Cassie did the music, man. So Cassie's been around for quite a long time and has a lot of experience putting up new productions and we were very grateful to, um, uh, have Cassie in the building. And, and Cassie's just a great person. Part of the thing that sold me and was like, she's so easy to talk to, and, and a great team player, and I think with a, with a cast of a lot of new people and.
Myself being a debut design, I wanted to make sure we, we had the right people in the room and Cassie and Stan, our A2 were. Perfect for the job.
Andy Leviss: Awesome. And so, that aside and shout out to Cassie, because I, I'm, Cassie is, yeah, an awesome person. I was like, we can't talk about the show for an hour and not, not give props to her. Um, getting back onto the monitoring, then we talked about like, little lower level, more distributed. Like, what? Tend to pertain to the mixes.
I know that's that's anytime we have theater folks on, I like to get into that a little bit because a lot of our listeners are from the concert world where Modern Ring is a very, very different beast.
Connor Wang: Yeah, we, um, it was a mix of essentially all of the instruments. I, the, one of the challenges with this show was that it was, the Belasco is a very small pit, so we just had our keys one player. We had two string instruments and then a French horn and our wind player. There were only five in the pit.
Everyone else was in a dressing room on the third level. Uh, so they were very far, which helped us quite a bit because we could control, um, the live sound in the room quite well. They were very far, but, um, allowed us to get very specific about the mix on stage. So it was, uh, a lot of, uh, It was keys one forward just to make sure that we were able to find our pitch.
Um, and the Belasco doesn't have a lot of slap back onto the stage. So I wasn't necessarily worried about the house mix pleading on. Um, it was, it was really everything kind of hitting the stage in. And making sure it felt right for the performers because I didn't want to give them the bare bones stripped down version of like, here's the bass note or here's the root note, bass, keys, a little bit of drums and, and, uh, say, have a good time.
It was really, I think, a pretty full mix of the band on stage.
Andy Leviss: Cool. And yeah, I mean, that's always the interesting thing going from rehearsals into on stage for the folks who don't do theater a lot, because the cast rehearses with a rehearsal piano book that is kind of a, like, boiled down, condensed version of the whole music. And then you go into the theater and a lot of sound designers and engineers who are new to it think like, well, keys they need for the pitch, maybe like kick and snare, like hat for tempo and dancing, and that'll cover it.
And you don't know what an actor is cueing off of, you know, what note that was in the piano book for rehearsals, but it's not part of that keys one book now. And so you kind of, you tend to have to work with the music team to figure out, okay, well, wait, what are they taking a cue off of? And who's playing that now?
And how do I get that in when they need it. Um,
Connor Wang: And, and, you know, a new musical in particular, where we're going to rewrite and reorchestrate the show throughout the tech process. It is a lot simpler to say, yeah, there's a little bit of everything on stage because Uh, when we make the choice to drop, drop the keys to part and then, uh, give this leading line to our wind player, we want to make sure the cast can hear that wind player to make their entrance.
Um, and then there's, you know, French, there's one microphone on the French horn and it was used in this glorious moment at the end of the show where they're walking down the red carpet. I want the cast to feel. Empowered by that like cinematic French horn line as much as the audience is feeling it because I think it affects performance.
So like, did we need to pipe that much French horn on stage? I don't, I, I, I think so because it helps actors. I think it helps, it helps the performance be achieved in a way that matches what the audience is experiencing.
Sean Walker: Everybody needs more French horn and French toast.
Connor Wang: Absolutely.
Andy Leviss: well, that's, that's really cool. And I want to like, I want to really flag that, that you said that Connor, cause I don't think that's necessarily a common approach. I think it's really easy to get into that utilitarian, we're giving the cast what they need to, to do the base level of the job and not thinking about like, That's a thing they need to, to like feel where they're in the moment.
And that's, I like, I want to commend you on like being conscious of that and thinking of that. Cause I don't, I mean, I'll admit, like I've done shows and not thought of it that like, I'm from this conversation we had today, going to approach things differently in the future from that. So that's really cool.
Connor Wang: Thanks. Yeah, it's, it was, uh, I'm nostalgic for the project now. It makes me, uh, it was a, it was a really good time in the theater. Everyone was very supportive of, and vocal about what they needed. So, um, that's, that's, that was my approach was like, make sure I'm talking to the cast constantly about, uh, how it's feeling on stage.
So
Andy Leviss: That's great. And so it's, it sounds like it was, but you kind of got a mix dialed in and it wasn't one of the shows where you need to like every song had its own like different monitor mix. Like
Connor Wang: there were times when, uh, for the most part, we started with a default mix after we got the band in for seating and soundcheck, and we didn't stray too far from that throughout the show. Unless it was a very specific moment of, uh, they need to hear the bass line in order to hit their mark for this thing.
Then we would go in and say, in this cue, in this song, here it is, more bass.
Sean Walker: Hip us concert and corporate folks to the theater world here. Is there a monitor console or is all this being done off of the one front of house console?
Connor Wang: It is, uh, all being done from the front of house console. It's all pre programmed and static in a way where The cast on stage is getting a direct reflection of what's happening in the pit that day. So that is one of the challenges where, because it's all programmed into the front of house console and it felt good in tech, maybe a month from now it can drift a little bit because You now have sub musicians coming in and playing the part just a little bit differently.
And that causes everything in the room to feel different. Um, but, yeah, it's, I would say it's more uncommon to have a monitor mixer in a Broadway
Sean Walker: that one of the reasons why the, the T package on the DiGiCos is, is something that you guys really like because it gives you the ability to make a lot of those. Snapshots and scenes and stuff to do a lot of those changes on the fly.
Connor Wang: Yeah, the TE software on the DiGiCo is, is crucial, and we, I am a DiGiCo person, so, it's crucial for thinking through how you're going to program each snapshot, uh, and the ease of programming in a way where Uh, while we're in the scene, I can make an adjustment to the onstage mix and auto update it, um, in the kind of inverse of what non T software does.
Uh, I can make a change while Cassie's mixing, and then she can step into the next cue and I'll know that that change tracked through either in that snapshot or in that group of snapshots, um, without T software and without like the DiGiCo programming logic, this would have monitor mixering onstage. I think gets very, very.
Messy, because there are things you just want to like track through the show and I don't want to like press a bunch of buttons to make that happen to track through the show. Yeah.
Andy Leviss: I'm getting nightmare flashbacks of pasting, global pasting 10 scenes at a time on DM 2000s on off roadway musicals 15 years ago.
Connor Wang: come a long way.
Andy Leviss: Yeah, we have. That's having to explain to musicians that like, trust me, it's, it's pre fader. If you sound different today, it's because you sound different today. I couldn't make a global change to you during the show if I wanted to because I can only do it 10 at a time and there's 90 scenes in the show.
Connor Wang: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And you
Andy Leviss: not having to deal with that is a huge boon.
Connor Wang: it's, it is pretty nice. There, there is merit to the rock and roll process where you have a monitor engineer, but I found that, uh, without everyone being on in ears, Sean, I think it's like, or having wedges right next to them, it becomes a little bit nebulous. If you have someone backstage mixing monitors for an experience that they're not going through themselves, which is why I'll take an iPad on stage during a tech run and just like stand next to this cast member belting, because I need to know what it sounds like.
When I'm standing in that spot or standing on the bed where they are, that's all like, uh, part of the process and try to lock it into the console so it doesn't change.
Sean Walker: Yeah. That's super cool. Cause then the, the show's just kind of on rails, right? We were like, boom, next scene, boom, next scene, boom, next scene. And the monitor changes, the show changes, the EQ change, whatever you need, it all just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang down the line. Right.
Connor Wang: That's the goal. That's the goal.
Sean Walker: That's the goal, and then when reality hits us in the face, we change on the fly.
Connor Wang: Yeah. Yeah. That's when it's important to have a Cassie in your corner to take care of it. Yeah.
Andy Leviss: Well, I mean, like I said, I know I wanted to talk a little bit with Liz about like other aspects of working in sound. Is there anything between the two of you, particularly about, about How to Dance in Ohio that we didn't ask you that you think that you wish we had or that you want to share about it?
Connor Wang: I think, you know, I, I think back to the headphones of it all, that's something I learned about in regards to thinking about Broadway holistically. I think we're headed in a direction where some shows. Every audience member's taste for shows varies wildly, and we're in a moment, I think, in time where a lot of sound designers approach to how loud should a show be, uh, varies greatly, but the idea of an accessible listening experience can span across any show in any production, and I think what I saw from our accessibility team, from conversations with Liz, about our What that did for our show, um, just as a test run and, and talking about how to market it and how, how to make sure people know about it.
That's something that I hope to see kind of move on past our show. I think there are shows that some people with sound sensitivities don't go to because they know it might be, uh, too much stimulus for them. But if there was a listening experience where, Hey, here's some over your headphones, here's a mix that was checked off by the sound designer.
And here's a couple of buttons for volume. I think that is a fairly inexpensive way to make Broadway more accessible and, and address the idea of neurodiversity being a spectrum. So you give people the choice of, of what they're listening to, uh, for those that need it.
Liz Weber: I think with what Connor's just saying, is that like, what made the show more accessible than say, just the TDF autism friendly performance that happens for once a year for any given Broadway show, which they're great, we do love the TDF autism performances, they're awesome. But what. The show with the focus of disability led to is there was never, ever a moment where people felt uncomfortable to ask for the accommodations that they needed.
I know that a lot of times, if you're at a Broadway house, you feel kind of uncomfortable asking for the ADA accommodations, even if you need them, like, because it's just not the priority and it's not the focus. So, in these specific scenarios, it is really, really cool that it was just an accepting environment, and everyone was encouraged to ask for what they need, and we provided it, but it wasn't like a barrier, like, oh, you're no different by needing this, and I think that was pretty special about it.
this specific show.
Andy Leviss: Right on. Well, I, like I said, I do want to dig in a little bit, now that we've talked about the show, and talk to you, Liz, about, like, your experiences working, like, as a sound person, with Autodesk, and, like I said, I know I've talked a bit on the show about my own, and I'm curious to get other perspectives of the What challenges, like, where you are on the spectrum cause, what benefits it has, and, like, how that works.
So, I mean, I'll kinda, I'll leave you with that open ended for now. We can kinda go into questions as they come up, but,
Liz Weber: Yeah, sure. Um, I gravitated really quickly to sound because I'm a very technical minded person and the math of it all, like the logarithmic scale of a decibel is like very exciting to my brain. Um, but it's also, I think that I do have a ton of sensory problems and I think that Me having sensory issues actually improves my, uh, skill set as an audio engineer, because I will hear that high frequency before probably a lot of people will, and I will be annoyed shitless out of that, so I will, I will cut it out, or if I hear too much bass, I will high pass it, and it's like, because of that, like, sort of sensory initial click in my head, I will Cool. I think I tackle the sound in a way that is probably a little bit different than, uh, most neurotypical people would mix sound, and I think uh, it makes me more aware of what's going on, and I'm also, sometimes, like, I will mix with sunglasses on, and that will help me too, because if there's too much light on stage, then I'll, I might get overstimulated, because it is my job to listen to Problem frequencies and sounds, so I don't want there to be too much going on, and sometimes a thing that I will do is wear sunglasses and it totally helps me.
Andy Leviss: right on. Um, and I guess, like, it's, it's interesting, cause I think both in my own life and as we're talking about it now, I know, like, I go back and I'm like, wait. Is that, is that a thing that like every sound engineer does? Or is that a thing I'm particularly like keyed to because of my autism?
Particularly because I was diagnosed so late in life. It's like, there's always that like, huh, is that,
Liz Weber: totally.
Sean Walker: all wear sunglasses while mixing. Outdoor music festivals, so we're not blinded, you know what I mean?
Liz Weber: yes, outside music festivals, but do you also do it in a dark theater?
Sean Walker: Ooh, only when I wear my sunglasses at night.
Liz Weber: I, I, yeah, you know.
Sean Walker: No, no, I don't. Not in a dark theater. But I get your point. If there's
Andy Leviss: Um, I, I mean, one question I have for you then is like, do you find that It's something you have to mention to folks that you're working with a lot. Do you not, do you choose when to disclose that or not?
Liz Weber: I think, I think as far as coming out as being on the autism spectrum, which is a little bit of a funny thing to do, um, I do it, More often than I think I would have in the past after How to Dance in Ohio, um, I think that I mention it and it sort of helps people be a little bit more lenient with me and I get to be a little bit more lenient with people.
Um, like, oh, I need to take a break, this is really too much right now. And I mean, I think that, honestly, like, me telling people doesn't affect it, but I think that all of the re when people compliment me, and they specifically say, Oh, the mix sounded very balanced, and obviously everyone wants a balanced mix, I sort of think that a lot of the comments that I get specifically are autism specific, because I am I think I am listening for different things than probably a lot of people are, I am trying to make it as pleasant to me as possible, and that's not to say, like, there could be a loud ass show with rock music and 37 guitars on stage or whatever, and I will try to make it manageable for me, and turns out people enjoy that.
So, I cater to my needs, I think, but My needs help make the experience good for everyone else.
Andy Leviss: Right on. Um, and
Sean Walker: guitars on stage, shoot me in the face right there. Just shoot me in the
Liz Weber: I was being maybe a little hyperbolic,
Sean Walker: I like, no, I like it. I'm
Liz Weber: no more
Sean Walker: I was just thinking about that. Like, Oh my God, 37 guitars. I have a hard enough time with two. By the time there's three, I'm like, fuck this. I'm packing up and going home. You know what I
Andy Leviss: I mean there was, there was the Spinal Tap Live Earth a few years ago where they closed the festival with Big Bottom and they had every bassist from every band on the lineup all on stage, like 20 bass
Sean Walker: my God. That's too bad. I forgot to unmute all of them, but one
Andy Leviss: It was, it was amazing, like you gotta go watch the video because it's literally like on bass. And on bass. And on bass! And not like introducing every one of them. It's great.
Sean Walker: That's
Andy Leviss: Um, so I guess that's a question I have for you Liz, is you've, you said like this summer and last summer you're mixing monitors. Uh, I know, at least for me sometimes like, while I love mixing monitors it can, it can certainly be overwhelming for anybody in the worst of circumstances.
Like, do you, like, do you, Do you, do you have strategies you've developed for helping like, manage a bunch of mixes at once, whether particular to your autism or not?
Liz Weber: Well, um, for me, So how I am in this current monitor mixing role is kind of interesting to begin with. I was the A1 for the Big Apple Circus in 2022. So I had TENT on my resume. And this music venue was looking for It's a tent, a large outside tent. Capacity of like a thousand. Really, really cool place in Northern Wisconsin.
And we bring in all these cool touring music acts and I am a theater person to my core. So I was a little culture shocked when I came into the music world, uh, for this gig, but they needed someone who understood tent acoustics. And then I was like, I think I technically do, I think I might actually be the person for this weirdly.
So then I applied and then I. Um, switched over to the music realm a little bit, and I've been doing monitors for the last two seasons here at Big Top, and so that's how I ended up here, and I think that monitors is really, really fun. I love mixing monitors, because you have to make sure the instrument sounds good, but once beyond that, it's up to the band.
They really have to say, okay, give me what I want. They want, so I do their service, and it's kind of fun because I just really have to be speedy with my fingers, good at a console, and it's still brainpower for sure, but it's at the leisure of The people on my stage, you know,
and I think managing, keep going,
Andy Leviss: Oh, no. Go ahead. Go ahead.
Liz Weber: I was going to say, I think managing a lot of mixes is really exciting for me because I like communicating with people and I like talking to people. What I, the only time that mixes maybe get a little overwhelming is because when you run a console in Prefader, you don't really make an adjustment, so if you get feedback out of nowhere, you're like, whoa.
But I think I really like having lots of mixes, because it's, it's like, okay, well, we're gonna make something, it's gonna, we're gonna collaborate, and if the bassist asks for too much bass, we're gonna take that out, because the guitar player is now overwhelmed, and it's like a nice little puzzle, almost.
Andy Leviss: Right
Sean Walker: Do you, did you just say that you mix your monitor console in pre fader?
Liz Weber: Yeah.
Sean Walker: Interesting.
Liz Weber: Yeah.
Sean Walker: I don't, I, I mixed my monitor console in post fader. Although I got to admit, I'm a front of house guy that. You know, butchers monitor mix. I mean, I mean, mixes monitors once in a while. but I, when I'm doing just monitors, I lay the console out post fader so that I can leave all the faders at unity. And then when you have those moments, like what is ringing, you can just grab that, let's say vocal, whatever, you know what I mean?
And drag that down and everybody's mixing. It stops ringing. You don't have to chase for what mix is too hot.
Andy Leviss: Yeah. I, I feel like when I talk, I mean we, I, we should almost do like a monitor engineer, like panel episode. I feel like that's, that's one of those religious things people get into with monitor mixing. Some folks like that and some. We'll do everything pre fade except for like, then you make a stereo mix.
That's an emergency. I can give this to like a guest pack if I have to
Sean Walker: Yeah, I'm not
Andy Leviss: Or, or, or I know people who the, the stereo mix is what I mix for myself.
Sean Walker: sure. And I'm not, I'm not giving you a hard time. I was like, Oh, interesting. I, I think about it a different way. I wondered, you know what I mean? I wasn't trying to give you a hard time about the way you
Andy Leviss: yeah, no, no. And, and to be clear, that was the point I was trying to make too, is that there are valid approaches on both sides. And I'm intrigued by. By both approaches and who tends to fall to which side.
Sean Walker: I just don't know any different dude. I'm just a front of house guy. Forget it, dude. I'm just a
Liz Weber: Yeah.
Sean Walker: owner masquerading as a front of house guy masquerading as a modern engineer once in a while, you know what I mean? So I don't really know what I'm doing anyway. But I
Andy Leviss: he's actually four sheep and a trench coat masquerading as a shop owner masquerading as a
Sean Walker: three and a half. I'm not that tall. Yeah,
Andy Leviss: The camera adds
Sean Walker: yeah, yeah. Totally, totally
Andy Leviss: Um, well let's wrap it up. Um, let's go back to one of our classic questions. Uh, Yeah, I was going to say, Liz, let's start, let's start with you, uh, there, there, where, where you are. Uh, we're coming out to see a show in the tent. What's there to eat around there? What's good?
Liz Weber: Oh boy. So, I have had very little real food for the last, two and a half months of my life. We are on Lake Superior, so, um, you will have lots of lake fish, whitefish, trout, you name it, no salmon. Um, you will have lots of midwestern classics, like I am in Wisconsin, after all. Um, I eat so much dairy. Um, and then some person will probably be like, Hey, you want a burger?
We're gonna put some peanut butter on it! Or something weird like that, cause I'm in the Midwest.
Sean Walker: the fuck? Peanut butter on a burger.
Connor Wang: butter on a burger is so good. I will ver I will verify
Sean Walker: Okay.
Connor Wang: because, like,
Sean Walker: All right.
Andy Leviss: what got Conor on
Sean Walker: he was, he was like, yo man, I've been, I've been asleep for the last 10 minutes, but you, peanut butter burgers. I'm in dog. Give me, give me
Connor Wang: wasn't gonna let you trash talk it. Guys, like, the burger The heat from the patty melts the peanut butter so it becomes like the texture. Oh, it's Goo, I guess. It's delicious. Please try it.
Sean Walker: peanut
Andy Leviss: just found Sean's sensory issue.
Sean Walker: I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll put some peanut butter on a burger. I mean, I got kids, man. We be, we be knocking out PB& Js. I can, I can score some peanut butter on a burger.
Connor Wang: Give it a shot. Creamy, creamy peanut butter.
Sean Walker: Done. Will do. That's awesome. Oh, sorry. Back to what you're
Andy Leviss: you Oh yeah. Um, and then what about back home, uh, when you're in New York, where's your favorite spot?
Liz Weber: I'm a good Jew. Cats is delicatessen. I'm
Andy Leviss: There you go.
Liz Weber: not a good Jew in the kosher sense, but like, I like myself a 30 sandwich that will make me sad later.
Sean Walker: Jesus, fuck. A 30 sandwich. Does that come with a blowjob? What the fuck is a 30 sandwich,
Andy Leviss: colossal sandwiches
Liz Weber: really large sandwiches, but
Sean Walker: Like for the whole
Liz Weber: little bit too much. Two really hungry people.
Sean Walker: All right. All right.
Andy Leviss: Which sandwich is it there? Which is your fave?
Liz Weber: I'll get a pastrami on rye, with mustard, and a pickle on the side, half sour, obviously.
Sean Walker: Wait, what's a half sour pickle?
Liz Weber: It hasn't been brined all the
Andy Leviss: been to New York that
Sean Walker: I've never been in New York, dude.
Liz Weber: Wow. You need to have a half sour pickle. It's a pickle that hasn't been brined all the way. It's basically a salty cucumber.
Sean Walker: Oh shit. That sounds delicious. Yeah,
Liz Weber: It is.
Sean Walker: Rather than like the pucker face you have when you have a regular pickle you get like
Liz Weber: Mm hmm. Yeah,
Sean Walker: over.
Andy Leviss: All right, all right. Wait, I couldn't make room for a baby, now I gotta make room for
Sean Walker: Two babies, two babies. Baby and now me coming over too. Now you gotta, we'll both be crying bro. Like,
Andy Leviss: not changing your diaper though.
Sean Walker: it. Fine, I'll change my own.
Andy Leviss: Um, alright Connor, what about you? You got two cities to choose from. I'll let you choose either or one for each. We're coming to visit you. Where are we going to eat?
Connor Wang: Ooh, if you're coming to Chicago and we're gonna have a really good meal, I would go to Rosemary in the West Loop. It's like, I think Italian Croatian food. It's like amazing, amazing food. And I don't even know how to categorize it into anything and compare it to, but like really good risottos, really good, uh, uh, like zucchini fritters and stuff like random stuff like that.
Uh, and then in New York, Five Senses in Koreatown is like a really good entry level Korean meal. I think that gets people to the next step, which is Korean barbecues. Uh, anywhere in K Town is, is like a really, it's a great community meal. It's like feeds the soul. Yeah. Check
Andy Leviss: And I, I, I particularly love both that there's been a bunch of Chicago guests on in our range and before us and I don't think anybody's mentioned that. So we've hit a new one and, and yeah, likewise, that's a place I, as a New Yorker for, you know, 20 something years ago and have not been to, so I need to add that to my list and check it out.
Connor Wang: it out.
Sean Walker: All right, Andy, here's the jam. We call Keith, we tell him we need to each make more status, and we start flying around making it a food show. Like, fuck audio, we're doing food now. Just fly around, everybody's quick,
Andy Leviss: our version of somebody
Sean Walker: Yeah, that's what I'm saying, dude, somebody feed Sean and Andy, dawg, and let's go, let's go try these, this food, and while we're doing food, that's it, we'll fly around, while we're doing food, we'll yap about audio at dinner with people, and like, yeah, man, the audio thing is cool, but, but the steak though, you know what I mean, this cheeseburger with peanut butter on it, yo, man, this is unreal, I would never have done it, but I'm glad I flew all the way across the country for a cheeseburger with peanut butter on it, you know,
Andy Leviss: of Hot Ones ever.
Sean Walker: oh my god, that was Chicago for me, dude, my, I was on tour with a band, and my, my buddy John Lutz, he played guitar in the band, and he was, Oh, and there was like, Chal, he was, it was all about the hot sauce and we stopped in this place that had wings and it was like five of us, there were five wings, and it was hot going down, you're like, oh man, that's hot.
I went and met a friend of Hard Rock after, like three hours later for dinner, and it was like, hi, good, I gotta go, I'll see you later, and it was just, it came out twice as hot as it went in, it was fucking miserable, those hot ones, things are unbelievable, like, it just tears your gut up, dude. unreal, don't do it, don't do it to yourself.
Andy Leviss: Cool. Well, I think that's, that seems about the right place to wrap it up. Um, thanks Liz and Connor both for making time to talk to us. And, you know, like I said, I'd love like bringing more theater into our listeners, but also talking about the specific unique challenges of that show. And, you know, Liz, you know, talking about also what you're doing out, out in the tent, and maybe, maybe we even come back another time and like talk a little more about doing sound in a tent.
Liz Weber: totally. Weird times.
Andy Leviss: alright, well
Sean Walker: Thanks to RCF and Allen and Heath for letting us yap about audio and food and stuff. And that's the pod, y'all. See you next week.
Liz Weber: Bye!
Music:“Break Free” by Mike Green
