273. Front Of House Engineer Ben Ivey

Ever wonder what it’s like to mix sound at Madison Square Garden for the first time without as much as a line check, let alone a proper sound check? In Episode 273, front of house engineer Ben Ivey shares his thrilling experience doing just that for country artist Warren Zeiders. This episode is sponsored by Allen & Heath and RCF.

Ben also talks about his journey from learning church sound alongside his sound engineer dad to balancing life on and off the road, mixing sound for top acts that include Zeiders, TI, and Killer Mike, why empathy and talent both play crucial roles in engineering, and more. In addition to his work at FOH, he’s a production manager and consultant who’s worked with a variety of artists, including country, pop, rock, hip-hop, and gospel music. He’s toured arenas, stadiums, theaters, clubs, ballrooms, TV shows, and tons of festivals over the years.

Other clients include Megan Moroney, Lily Rose, Priscilla Block, Elle King, Trace Atkins, Eli Young Band, T-Pain, Lil Baby, Maverick City Music, LANY, Jason Upton, and Simply Irresistible. Most recently, he just got off the road with the Beautifully Broken tour with Jelly Roll, where he had the opportunity to mix in venues including Madison Square Garden, the Staples Center, and TD Garden for country artist Warren Zeiders.

Episode Links:
Ben Ivey Website, on Instagram, and on LinkedIn
Warren Zeiders on Jimmy Kimmel Live
STN Episode 245: Kenny Barnwell on Maintaining Healthy Relationships When Working Away From Home
Episode 273 Transcript

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Transcript

Episode 273 - Ben Ivey

Note: This is an automatically generated transcript, so there might be mistakes--if you have any notes or feedback on it, please send them to us at signal2noise@prosoundweb.com so we can improve the transcripts for those who use them!

Voiceover: You’re listening to Signal to Noise, part of the ProSoundWeb podcast network, proudly brought to you this week by the following sponsors:

Allen & Heath, introducing their new CQ series, a trio of compact digital mixers for musicians, bands, audio engineers, home producers, small venues, and installers that puts ease of use and speed of setup at the heart of the user experience.

RCF, who has just unveiled their new TT+ Audio brand, including the high performance GTX series line arrays and the GTS29 subwoofer. Be sure to check it out at rcf-usa.com. That's rcf-usa.com.

Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green


Andy Leviss: Hey, you're listening to another episode of Signal to Noise. I'm your host, Andy Leviss, and with me, the trick to my treat, Mr. Sean Walker. What's up, Sean? 

Sean Walker: What's up, dude? How are you? How's dad life? 

You had a kid since the last time we chatted. 

Andy Leviss: I did, I did. He is, uh...Matthew...he's almost three weeks old this weekend. It's, it's an adventure. 

Sean Walker: So, how does it feel to have not slept for three weeks since the last time you actually went partying? Yeah, 

Andy Leviss: doing corporate events. It's, I've been preparing for this role my whole life. 

Sean Walker: Totally, 

Andy Leviss: The only difference is there's a cranky little human who can't tell me what he wants. Wait, no, 

Sean Walker: I said I was sorry, Andy. I said I was sorry. It was one fucking time, bro. God. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, no, it's exactly like a corporate event down to like, while he's upset, he's upset, and he can't tell me why he's upset, but he's clearly upset. Let me just try throwing things at him and see what sticks. 

Sean Walker: Oh, I see you have similar corporate clients to the rest of people that do corporate events. Okay. I got you. You're not like on a pedestal someplace. All right. Cool, 

Andy Leviss: Nope. Nope. Nope. They just have slightly more money to throw around some days. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, 

Andy Leviss: you again, although I say that and then everybody's like, oh, we won't call Andy, he's always so busy on these high profile things, please, folks, call me, I've got a baby to 

Sean Walker: Yeah. Right. I don't know if you guys know this. When they say kids aren't cheap, they didn't mean the 50 grand to have it at the fricking hospital. They meant the diapers, the food, the Mac and cheese they had to fucking have, and then took one bite and left. And you had to be like, what the, really? Like, could not live without this mac and cheese, full fuckin meltdown, and then, like, one bite, and you're like, Nope, just kidding, I guess we'll, dad'll eat that for dinner too, you know what I mean, and then like, Oh man, it must be nice to be the president of a company, and, Father, you must get all the, like, the first picks, the big wing, and chicken, No man, I get the fuckin leftovers, dude, that's how it goes, cause, I'm too cheap to throw it away, bud, like, 

Andy Leviss: yeah, no, we are, yeah, yep, at least right now, like, he's easy to feed, it's either formula or milk, like, there's only two things he's eating, 

Sean Walker: Yeah, yeah, dude, totally, it's, and it's real simple, dog, when they get fussy, I mean, babies are like grown ass men. When they get fussy, put a boob in their mouth, man. They'll shut the fuck up. It'd be fine. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's pretty simple, you know? 

Andy Leviss: Yep. Yep. That's a, uh, I don't know if you do, do you know t shirt hell. com, 

Sean Walker: Nope. I don't. 

Andy Leviss: T shirt hell. com. They're horrendous. Some of them are really funny. Some of them are like, Oh my gods. And I think they still have their worse than hell section, which is truth in advertising, but they have a baby hell section that has a bunch of, some of them are really funny. 

Some of them are really offensive. Like, you know, like a bit, well, like a baby onesie that's like, you know, watch your goddamn mouth. There's fucking kids around. Um, but they, they do, they do have a 

Sean Walker: I thought I was the one gonna get us cancelled. Nope. You. 

Andy Leviss: But, but they do, they do, they do have a baby shirt and onesie, Daddy's Little Boob Bogart. 

Sean Walker: Totally, dude. Totally. 

Andy Leviss: I saw that and I immediately thought of you. 

Sean Walker: There you go. Daddy's little boob Bogart, and you got the shirt that says, I want my dirty pillows back. You know what I mean? 

Andy Leviss: Um, yeah, but no, it's, 

Sean Walker: that we're totally off the rails and we both got us canceled, 

Andy Leviss: yeah, 

Sean Walker: let's, let's, let's introduce our guest on that one and see if we can't, you know, put it back to audio before fucking nobody shows up next 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, so this is, we, letting you behind the curtains of, of signal to noise right now, we try and work a little bit ahead, get stuff banked up, uh, you know, just so like we're not scrambling like madmen, you know, and every once in a while though, we Wile E. Coyote straight off the cliff and look down below and realize, Oh, shit, we're out of episodesm, gah! So I, I happened to be Facebook messaging with this guest yesterday just randomly saying, hey, and offhand mentioned like, oh, hey, I'm sort of scrambling to look for a guest tomorrow, but you know, we'll figure it out. And he was like, I'm off tomorrow. What you doing? So, um, I was like, I'm off. Talking to you is what we're doing. 

Sean Walker: You're a legend, Ben. You're a fucking legend, bro. 

Andy Leviss: So, um, and so this one we're, we're recording today on Halloween and y'all will, we'll hear this tomorrow on November 1st. Uh, we're here with, uh, Ben Ivey, who is, uh, a list of some awesome acts he's worked with over the years. Most recently, he's been out with, uh, Warren Zeiders and, uh, just did, this was your, uh, your first visit to MSG on that tour, right? 

Ben Ivey: yeah, yeah, it was, uh, thanks for having me guys. Um, I super, super appreciate it. Um, yeah, it was my first time and it was absolutely insane. Um, that was definitely one of the best rooms I think I've ever been in. That I didn't know was actually good. Because no one said that to me. About 

Andy Leviss: I feel like you, you get caught up in like the, the size and the scale and everything else and like being like scared of what you're going to run into with, like with whether the crew is going to be great or not and, and yeah, nobody actually talks about what the room is like. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. And like, we raw dogged it, dude. Like, we had no soundcheck. I didn't hear the PA. I didn't even do a line check. Like, I had nothing. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah. Cause you were, you're a support on that tour. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, and we had three different dark hours that day. Three. It was the 

Sean Walker: to show my 

Ben Ivey: thing. Oh, dude, I was, I was so on cloud nine, like, of course I knew that was ridiculous. 

And when it finally, like, wasn't going to happen, I just kind of went, I'm about to do the biggest gig of my flippin life. And I'm gonna raw dog it. And my wife standing next to me, like, oh man, like, like, oh dude, and yeah, but no one told me it was like one of the greatest arenas, like, we all knew it was one of the greatest arenas in the world, but it's actually acoustically one of the greatest arenas in the world, and I just kept turning everything up. 

Sean Walker: Atta boy. 

Ben Ivey: so cool, but we were also like super far away. So I might've killed everybody in the first five rows, but you know, whatever it's rock music. 

Andy Leviss: let's, why don't, why don't we do that? Like the, the classic movie trope and we'll do the, you're probably wondering how I got here and take it back. And why don't you, you give us a little on, on who you are and how, how, how do you end up there? Yeah. 

Ben Ivey: Sure. Sure. So I, um, uh, like most kids in the South, I started in church. Um, my dad, uh, was the audio engineer at the church and it was like in one of those like, like boxed out rooms, like completely around with like the screen in front kind of thing, um, with a giant analog desk and. My dad didn't know how to actually, like, what we would call mix, but he is a physicist, and so he knew, like, the theory of sound and, like, how it actually works, and, like, gang structure actually meant something to this guy, whereas, like, nowadays, they're just like, oh, yeah, just, you know, let's turn this up, and it makes it louder, go boom boom, 

Sean Walker: Put more plugins on it. 

Ben Ivey: yeah, exactly. 

Yeah, but like now he would look at a console and be like, I don't know what this does. Um, so I basically hung out with him all the time, but the main reason I hung out with him is because I didn't have to really listen. I could just like sit in the back and like eat snacks. Um, but one of these days I saw him like doing stuff and I had all these knobs and I was like, Hey, what does this mean? 

And he basically like gave me this really long out explanation, um, as far as my memory serves it. And I just got interested in it. I thought it was just a really cool thing to have like all the controls and all the power in the back. Um, but I was a musician, like a singer first, so. It was kind of an odd thing. 

I kind of like thought that was secondary, but lo and behold, it really became a thing for me and it really became a thing of like, Oh, I learned how to lead from the back. Oh, I learned that like. If you go to service, like, and no one, and the mics don't work, like, no one hears you. It's a really important job, you know? 

But I never thought about, like, what that could actually mean down the road. I just liked it. I thought it was a lot of fun. But as I started doing more bands and doing different things, I was like, you know what? Like, I actually really like doing this. Like, this is actually a really, really fun thing. But it, that started that spark was that first time I looked at a HD 3000 and was like, Whoa, this is cool. 

Um, so that's kind of, that's kind of how I got my start. Um, and it also became an availability thing. You know, when I had my first gig, um, it was because the monitor engineer was sick, and I was just a guy that was there and knew the console. That's the only reason why I got the gig, and my first gig, the amps caught on fire, and I had to send a radio and say, Hey, what do I do? 

The amps are on fire. I'm like, put it out! You know, like, like, what else do you think you do? You know, like So yeah, uh, it, it, it's been an interesting ride, but that was the big spark was in the beginning was my dad, 

Andy Leviss: It's like, Ben, when we, when we said we wanted you to mix a little hotter, you took us a little too little 

Ben Ivey: which is hilarious. Cause for a long time, I think I was known as one of the quietest mixers and now I'm the opposite. So it's, you know, 

Andy Leviss: so it averages out in the end. 

Sean Walker: I'm a little bummed out. I've actually never caught an amp on fire, and I feel like I'm, like, not part of the club, bro. 

Ben Ivey: I didn't do it. It was the guitar player, but I watched two AC30s just fly out, like with the tubes in the air, just like, Oh, like it was, yeah, it was like straight out of Home Alone, bro. It was crazy. I'll never forget it. I'll never 

Sean Walker: my god, that's awesome. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, that was my little first day of the office. 

Sean Walker: Oh, that's awesome, dude. 

Ben Ivey: it's like, hold your beer, like, let's go. 

Sean Walker: Totally. You want to be a sound guy? Here, hold my beer. Right? 

Ben Ivey: yeah, yeah, little did I know 

Sean Walker: Yeah, right? Totally. Letting you know how true 

Ben Ivey: this life would choose me. I wouldn't choose it. And yeah, 

Sean Walker: Dude, isn't that the truest statement of maybe ever in frickin audio? Like, this life chose me. 

I didn't really choose it, 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, you know, I think every engineer at some point in their life has tried to do something else because they're like, oh, all right, I'll finally listen to my Aunt Sally and like get a real job, you know, and I've done that like three different times in my lifetime now. 

And every time my wife just looks at me and she's like, this ain't it. And I'd be like, nah, like, come on. And she's like, this is not a good idea. Like, this is not a good idea. And she would, she would want me to go back. And so like, it's very. It's very interesting, but now, your first question to me asking about MSG, she's the big reason why I'm there, you know, she's the reason of like, she believed in me to say like, no, you need to go do that, like, you need to go explore that, you need to go try this tour, you need to go do this thing, and like, giving me kind of the legs to stand on. 

Because, you know, in this comparison game now, I mean, oof, it's rough. It's rough out there. Um, but yeah, my dad and my, my wife, they're the two, two really big reasons why I do what I do now. 

Sean Walker: Dude, how awesome to have a teammate and a cheering section at home, dude. 

Ben Ivey: Right, man? Like, it, 

Sean Walker: people don't have that. And like, Andy and I are also both blessed with teammates and cheering sections at home. You know what I mean? But I know a lot of people that have adversaries, but you know, both men and women, I'm not saying it's one way or the other, but like, dude, life's hard enough with a teammate at home, dude. 

If you had an adversary at home, that's okay. It'd be unbearable, dude. I can't imagine, 

Ben Ivey: Oh man, like, like how many of us have dated people in the past and like, oh yeah, I want to date a musician, or I want to date a production person, and then you, they realize like two weeks in that they don't want that, but they just haven't said it yet. Like I went through so many of those, and it was just like, 

Sean Walker: Have you been watching my twenties, bro? Like what? 

Ben Ivey: oh no. 

Sean Walker: You just, 

Ben Ivey: but it happens all the time. 

Andy Leviss: outside of, outside of people in the industry, the only other people when I was single and dating that I didn't have to like explain the schedule to eight different ways were ER doctors. They got it. 

Ben Ivey: yeah, it's just, it's amazing though, but like, I tell, I tell, like, guys a lot younger than me all the time now, they'll be like, How do you do it? How do you have a kid? And how do you tour? And like, how does this work? And I'm, and I always say the same thing. It's, it's very much a, you have to find the right person that can deal with all your junk, but also can push you to be better, but then also get what you do. 

You know, it's a whole different scenario. It doesn't mean my wife tomorrow would love for me to get off the road. Of course she would. But at the same time, she knows that like, that's part of me. 

Sean Walker: Yeah. She wants to have you home. She'd love to have you off the road, but after a while you're a miserable sack of shit. Get out on the road and go be happy again. I can't deal with you anymore. 

Ben Ivey: Absolutely. And absolutely, 

Sean Walker: Can you go do something that makes you happy husband? Cause I'm tired of you moping around the house. Like, yeah. 

Ben Ivey: And you know, that's all what COVID was. Like, I was just a daddy daycare mess, 

Sean Walker: Mixed more teams meetings than I should ever admit to in my life, 

Ben Ivey: and doing club shows with a mask on, and all those, mixing really bad church Things on broadcast that just sounded like junk, you know, yeah, no, no, no more. 

Sean Walker: I'm glad to be through that hurdle of life, you know what I mean? 

Ben Ivey: Man. Um, honestly, I, I think it, I know a lot of people have a lot of opinions on that whole, on that whole saga, I'll call it, but it, If, if you didn't try to get better in that time, you, you basically didn't move forward. 

Sean Walker: You fucked up. 

Ben Ivey: yeah, you really did because there was this giant vacuum and there still is a giant vacuum of like great engineers, but now people have picked people who are just good people over better engineers. 

Sean Walker: A thousand percent. 

Ben Ivey: It happens all the time and I'll see it on forums. I'm like, Oh, I don't have work. Why do you have work? I'm like, well, dude, you're a jerk. So that's why you don't have work. And you know, that's what everyone 

Sean Walker: out with a jerk for 18 hours a day, bro. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. Like. 

Sean Walker: how good your engineering chops are. Like, if you're a prick, I don't wanna hang out with you. 

Ben Ivey: No, and like, I always think, can I get a beer with this person at the end of the show? Or do I want to? It's not saying you have to do that for every show. Like, if I'm doing a one off, like, I don't care. But if I'm on a tour with somebody, like, I want to be able to be like, Yeah, I'll grab a beer with you. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah. Well, that's like, it's, it's almost become a cliche over the years of the podcast of like, well, how do you, what advice do you have to folks? And it's always like, be a good hang, but it's a cliche for a reason. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. It's because it's real life. I mean, when you're on a bus, and you got twelve bunks, and you're full bus, you have to be able to Like, be a good person, and like, have good hygiene, and clean up after yourself, and not leave your food out everywhere, and like, you have to just do the stuff, you 

Sean Walker: if you're a shit roommate at home, you're not gonna make it on the bus, bro. Like, 

Ben Ivey: no, at all, 

Sean Walker: like, you're not gonna do it. 

Ben Ivey: And some camps, like, they'll, they'll kick you out just for looking weird, or for say something dumb, or not even saying anything, and then sometimes it'll be just for those kind of reasons. They're like, you know what, you're gross, bye, and they do that, it happens, I've seen it done. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, dude. That bus is small, bro. There's lots of people in that. You gotta, you can't be the stinky guy leaving garbage, or gal, or whatever. Like, leaving garbage everywhere and stuff. Like, sort it out. 

Ben Ivey: no, it, it doesn't work. And you know, that, that's why like finding the right act for you and trying different roles out and doing different things is like a great way to start in touring because you never really know until you start doing it because everybody is like the sound guy, the one arm sound man all the time, you know, but it's different when you get to the higher levels because it's all about your specialties. 

Like they hire an expert to be like the RF guy. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, 

Ben Ivey: Well, Are you the RF guy? Like, are you the patch guy? Are you the monitor tech, the monitor engineer, the front house guy? Like, and everyone always looks at some of those higher seats, these pedestals, but at the end of the day, it's like Yo, you have to show up. 

Like, you still have to do it. Like, I don't care about what you went through. Like, you still have to push out. Like, it, I'm a huge baseball nerd, and I've been watching, I've been watching the World Series, and it's been amazing watching these dudes compete, because it's just fascinating to me. Um, But like, for example, Dodgers first baseman Freddie Freeman literally was like, basically had his ankles like, in shambles and had the best series of his entire career. 

And it's because he just like, pushed through because he's like, I want to win. I want to win a World Series. And he did so well that he became the World Series MVP. And it's because He tried his hardest, you know, and he did the work, and when we don't do that, or we don't try to do that, even no matter what level it is, um, we always, it always doesn't work out. 

Sean Walker: Totally, dude. Totally. Somebody told me one time, a CEO of another company was like, Hey man, success is never owned, it's rented, and the rent is due every day. 

Ben Ivey: Hmm. 

Sean Walker: totally, dude. 

Ben Ivey: Oh, for 

Sean Walker: It's the same thing as you're saying, right? Like, you gotta show up, and you don't, like, you didn't just get to some level and now you're on cruise control, like, You gotta stay there, you gotta earn it, every single fuckin day. 

Go to work, do an excellent job, be a cool person to hang out with, and kick ass, you know what I mean? Cause, you're paid for your results, ultimately, you 

Ben Ivey: I literally had this conversation with, uh, sE for, uh, for Jelly Roll the other day, and we were, we were sorting through an issue about that I had at a show, um, it was pretty awful, like, audio stopped randomly. Just stopped in the middle of our show, like I had to stop the show, like it was real bad, like DEF CON 5, like bad, bad, bad, and, uh, we, we found out what it was, it was actually very minor, but it was one of those things that was like, you know, you can have 101 great shows, but if you have one show that's real bad, it can make you, and so you have to either have the trust with the client or the artist or You know, you have to be able to stand on your own two feet to be like, Hey, this was the problem. 

These are the five things I'm due to fix it. It'll be handled tomorrow. Don't worry about it. You know? And it was one of those conversations of like, he's like, yeah, man, like, I know you're good. I know I'm good. But like. What about tomorrow? And it was just another reminder of like, yep, I know we're in the cruise control part of this tour, but like, those fans don't know that the next day. 

Like, they don't care. Like, they want to see your act. They want to see your artist. They want to see the show. And if you don't do your job right, well then, you could be gone. Um, so it was a good, it was a good little reminder. It was a nice little reminder. Little Tor punch in the middle. 

Sean Walker: but I think your, I think your observation about how to handle this is exactly right. Like, you just gotta go to the boss, whoever that is, you know what I mean, and go, Hey. Here's the situation, here's what happens, here's what we're doing to fix it, here's how we're going to not have that happen again, blah, blah, blah, blah, and just go like, you know, just have a plan, rather than like, I don't know, it wasn't me, you know what I mean, and then they're like, if you don't know, you're out, I'll find somebody that does know, you know what 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. The worst thing you can do for someone who doesn't know something is to not give them data. Um, I firmly believe that, like I'll have people ask me all the time or, Hey, how did you get them to pick this? Or, Hey, how did you get him to care about this? Or, Hey, how'd you do this? And I'm just like. Man, you gotta give them something, like, that's tangible, and then explain it to them like they're not this high end engineer, that, like, just like a normal person. 

If they say, hey, like, how do I get my vocal better, and I'll go, well, you know, this Outboard EQ is really great, it's been used in studios everywhere, I kinda wanna try one for our house, you want one for monitors? And he's like, yeah, let's try it. As soon as he hears it, he goes, holy crap, I hear the difference. 

I'm like, yeah, well, that's what a Neve Shelford EQ comp does for your vocal. You know, whereas everyone else would be like, oh, yeah, of course, like, who cares? Like, just accept me, because I'm me, and it's great. It's like, no, you got to give them data, and then let them try it. And then, then they, then they'll, they'll do it. 

Like, that's just how it works. 

Sean Walker: totally, alright, silk or no silk, I wanna, 

Ben Ivey: say what? 

Sean Walker: silk or no silk, bro, where you at, 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, I mean, uh, it, that was a big thing this year of like, working with a younger act who's growing like a rocket ship and being like, okay, if he wants things to be consistent, like this is how we do that. And that's what vets come in to give to these guys, stability. 

And it starts with crew, it starts with gear, and like all those kind of things kind of obviously lead to, lead to other stuff. But that's how you get that trust. Cause when I went to him on the bus. And talked with him about it, about the big error and everything. I told him, he was like, Great, sounds good, thanks so much. 

Fist bumped, walked back to shower. 

Sean Walker: totally dude, 

Ben Ivey: And it could have gone so much worse. And he had every right to shoot me out. And he didn't. And it was one of those like, oh, okay. Like, I, This is good, but also like, alright, here we go, game time tomorrow, spend an hour and a half making sure everything was as about as buttoned up as it was to be able to put up or shut up. 

Sean Walker: Totally, dude. Totally. Good for you, man. Good work. That's awesome. 

Andy Leviss: So like, Oh, go 

Sean Walker: No, no, no, go ahead, man. 

Andy Leviss: I was going to pivot us so if you go ahead. 

Sean Walker: That's it. I was, same thing. Carry on, 

Andy Leviss: I was going to say like, Ben, you mentioned, you know, like finding the act like that's the right like style and act for you and I know like looking at the list of acts you've worked with like there's a wide range of like from like Warren on the Countryside to like Elking to like TI and Killer Mike like that's that's an eclectic mix and I'm kind of curious on the arc of the journey from like starting out in a church to doing all those and and. 

If like you've settled on one these days or do you kind of bounce between them as the work comes in or 

Sean Walker: How'd he get from church to Killer Mike, bro? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 

Ben Ivey: one, you live in Atlanta. 

Sean Walker: Nice! 

Ben Ivey: Part one. 

Sean Walker: Part 1. 

Ben Ivey: Part one. Part one ATL. And if there's an event and you're an engineer, more than likely you're going to mix R& B or hip hop. It's going to happen. And you'll mix a really bad Americana band every now and again, but like, you're going to. You're gonna learn what a compressor is, you know, you're, you're gonna see that visual and see what a threshold does, like, you know, um, but, but honestly, like, yeah, that was the main thing, it was kind of whatever came to me, I just always said yes, for the longest time, I was always like, yeah, let me mix your band, let me mix your band, like, I promise you, let me come mix your band, you know, I was that guy for the longest time. 

Um, and still kind of, kind of am, just because I, I wanna, I like working. I like doing my job. 

Sean Walker: These bills ain't gonna pay themselves, dawg. 

Ben Ivey: no, and I got a, I got a kiddo too, so I really understand, uh, ha ha, your, uh, your situation, Andy. Um, but, but yeah, so, um, 

Andy Leviss: it to me? Cause I don't yet. 

Ben Ivey: I had so many thoughts about when you guys were doing that intro that I just like, I was just like cheering from like from behind. I know no one can see us, but I was just cheering and like I was laughing and like fake clapping because I didn't know if there was this big intro. Like I had no idea, but I was just like, yeah, like I'm totally with you, you know, like the entire 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, no, like I, I'm, I'm glad we have opted right now to not post video of the podcast, but like watching you that whole time, I was like, man, I wish I had video to share with folks 

Ben Ivey: oh, I was so, I was so all about that, that whole, that whole exchange. It 

Sean Walker: Dude. Isn't it funny though? Like, like how having responsibilities, no matter what that is, kids will really do it to you, but we'll change your like. Your view on work where you're like, arenas one day, clubs the next, broadcast one day. I don't really care, man. If the day rates the day rate, I'm gonna go to work. 

You know what I mean? Like this mac and cheese thing, I'll make itself. You know what I mean? Like, I'll get it done. It's not like, oh, it's only in stadiums for me from now on ever, you know? 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, and as much as that sounds cool, like, I'm not Pooch. I'm not Raybold. I'm not, like, those are the only people, like, there's, like, 12 people in the world that can do that and, like, say that respectfully without sounding like a gigantic douchebag. Um, I am not one of those people. 

Sean Walker: to the club, bud. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, so it's, I don't know, but at the same time, it's just, like, Uh, how I started doing sound, part of, part of it was doing corporate and it was a really, really big thing for me to learn how to deal with a sales rep that just sells the gear and the account and the budget, and then just go make lemonade with whatever they gave you. 

And it, it allowed me to learn all these different types of systems and all these different types of consoles and all these, it's kind of a wireless to where now I can pick it and go, yeah, I want that one. Oh, why? Well, this is why I want this, you know? And it. It makes such a difference, and if I didn't do those different gigs, if I didn't know what a crappy load in was at a bar, to how that's gonna affect the band later, oh yeah, you should get these carts, like these things are really cool, you know, it'll help everything better, and like all that is like a building block to making your life and your gig just better. 

In general, and a lot of it starts with you. A lot of it starts with you in the learning process, but also just like you learn how to be a great hang. You learn what it looks like when it sucks or what happens 

Sean Walker: It gives you perspective, right? 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. When you don't plan ahead and you learn when it advances and you walk into a venue and this guy is like, Oh my gosh, you're the worst thing I've ever seen. 

You know, like. Doing all that stuff then gets you to those bigger gates to be like, Oh yeah, like he actually like knows what's going on and like, can do this. Like, do I have to work tomorrow? No, I don't have to. But if I want to make sure money for Christmas, cause I have a kiddo. Sure. You know, like it, it is what it is. 

Sean Walker: Totally, dude. Totally. 

Andy Leviss: Well, and it's, it's fun, like I've said before, like in the, particularly in the Broadway touring world, there's like that production sound position where like you kind of help get the show up and get the crew ready to go. And that's like one of my favorite things when I've done it is to be able to basically walk up to a very young new crew and be like, Hi, I'm you from the future. 

Let me help you not make the mistakes I made, 

Sean Walker: Let me save your life right now, bud. 

Andy Leviss: and it, it took me 10 years to learn these lessons. Let me try and help, and watch it, and also to watch who then listens to that and takes the lesson, and who is like, nope, I know better, and then takes 10 years to learn it the hard way. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. And, and on a 10, like if, if you, if you see the guy's about to swim and he's about to drown and you have this rescue mentality and you, like I do. And then you do this for a little while and you're like, you know what? He kind of needs to learn like his mistake. I'll be right there. And I can be there in the chaos, but, but learning those, getting those reps in is everything. 

It's everything like doing the church gig every single Sunday to learn about how to mix a band. Great idea. That's the game that church guys took. That's what they got over everybody else is that they have the time. They have the time back on the desk, 

Sean Walker: And usually they got like pretty decent gear compared to the guys learning in a bar, 

Ben Ivey: Shure do, and they, they actually know what the record's supposed to sound like, 

Sean Walker: Right. 

Ben Ivey: you know, like they actually take the time, and then sometimes they don't, sometimes they have no money and they have to do, they have to do with what they do, but, you know, but at the flip side, like, they might not know how to wring out a wedge. You know, they might not know what that even means or they go, Oh gosh, if I had 12 ridges on the stage, I don't know what I'd do. I was like, well, you would learn a lot about EQ. You learn a lot about going like, Oh, what's this mean? Oh, okay. You know, like, um, just turning knobs like I always did. Like just going, Oh, what does this do? 

What's this do? What's this going to do? You know? Um, but I think a lot of people, like you said, Andy, lose perspective over time. And. Like, I'm 34, so I'm relatively young in this world of doing stuff, but I've been doing it for a long time, but I've been doing it well, quote unquote, because I think there's, there's stages of this, I've been doing this show in 20 years. 

Well, yeah, I have, but I've been doing it well for like, eight, you know what I mean? And I think, I think that's the perspective we all need to kind of get back to, but also learn, like, knowing that like, okay, I have flaws in my game and I need to get better at them, and it's okay, but I need to get better at 

Sean Walker: We all do. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, everybody has 

Sean Walker: all got holes in our game. 

Ben Ivey: Mm hmm. 

Sean Walker: what I mean? Just, they're different holes in different things. And that doesn't mean that you're not good at it or not excellent at it, but like, everybody's got holes in their game, bro. You know what I mean? Totally. 

Ben Ivey: Absolutely. 

Sean Walker: of technical and creative. 

And so you can never like plug every fricking hole. Cause the rest of them will start being creative holes. You're like, man, I did the same thing with the last artist, even though it technically sounds great. Like I want a different vibe and I don't know how to get there or whatever. You know what I mean? 

Like it can be as simple as that. It's not like, I don't know how to mix the show or I don't know how to operate, but you're like, man, I use that same fricking. You know, Shelford Channel, every time. What other options do I have that give a different vibe? And not that there's anything wrong with the Shelford Channel, it's a bangin channel, but like, maybe that's not what you want for this show, and you're like, I don't even know where to go right now, or whatever, 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, and that's the thing too, like, being open to doing whatever, like, that's a big saying on the road and, you know, like, uh, you gotta be willing and open to do whatever it needs to get the job done, like, that's just the way touring guys work, which is awesome, and it, like, it does some codependencies when you, like, have that mentality, but, but the beauty is, it's, it's, uh. 

is that they're going to get a job done no matter what. But it also lets you have like, oh, I know my fundamentals, like. I know if, in order to get big drums, I need to do these four things, and these types of things help me do that. Now, it might not be the same, because, like, reggae is way more different than country rock and roll, and hip hop's way different than, you know, folk music, or whatever it is, and so. 

You gotta have some fundamentals, but then change with the certain acts that you're working with. Um, or, like in a corporate or Broadway context, like your most important thing is your RF. You know, if you have really bad RF, well, Tough shit. You know what I mean? Like, it's really hard. Yeah, like, it's really hard. 

Like, CEO, CEOs don't care about if the mic sounds that great. If it goes out, it goes out. 

Sean Walker: Everybody's fired. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, like, you're, 

Sean Walker: fired if 

Andy Leviss: loud, on and loud, 

Sean Walker: That's it, dude. 

Ben Ivey: are done for, you know? Like, sometimes it's just about to get the sound out and like, let it go and go woohoo, you know? Like, it is what it is, but I, I go back to like, when I have conversations like this. 

I, I heard of a video recently of a, Um, of a famous engineer and I really love this perspective, but in, in a very quick bad synopsis, it was basically like mixing is his listening skill. And that's what this is all predicated on. Like if you know the music and you know what the artist is going to do before they do. 

That's how you make the difference. That's how you get that arena gig. That's how you go to industry. That's how you take those steps to always be the guy that they want to call. 

Sean Walker: Totally, dude. 

Ben Ivey: Like that, that's it. And I never had thought about that, but I kind of sat back and I was like, Oh, that's why I've gotten phone calls. 

I mean, no one's ever told me that. That's why I've gotten phone calls, 

Sean Walker: Because you're used to hanging out with you do a good job, dude. 

Ben Ivey: yeah, and then I go, oh, yeah, like, I, hey, I noticed on this chorus you're doing this, like, do you want to do that live, or do you want to keep it like the record, like, I've always asked questions like that my whole life, but I never really realized, like, what it truly meant, if that makes sense, like, it was almost as if I was talking to a Mr. 

Miyagi the whole time, and then realized, like, oh, I've been doing half of that Most of the time 

Sean Walker: Totally. Well, but they're, they're bought in when you ask them questions like that. They're like, Oh, he's listening. He cares. He cares about me. He's not just mailing it in. You know what I mean? Like you're, you're building rapport with your artists that most people I won't say most people, that's too far. 

That some people don't do, right? Too many people don't build that rapport, right? And so when you have catastrophic events, because this is live, live events, and shit happens, no matter how good or prepared or gear you got, right? Like, it's not, it's not always your fault, or necessarily your fault, however. 

But you've got the rapport that they know that you know what you're doing. They know you got their back. You got their best interest at heart. And when you have those days, you can go to the trailer and go, yo, man, here's what happened. Here's what doing to fix it, blah, blah, blah, and get a fist bump head for the shower and not get cussed out and put on a fucking plane. 

You know what I mean? Like good for you, dude. That's awesome. 

Ben Ivey: it It's been a really crazy year To be quite honest with you. I really can't believe it's actually like on the ending because this tour lasted forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and getting to that point was even crazier. Um, but I was talking with, um, somebody recently about our first, uh, TV show experience and kind of like what that was like. 

Um, cause they were like, Hey, what was your like favorite day of the year? And they assumed I would say MSG. They would assume I would say all these big shows. And I was like, honestly, it was when I did Kimmel. And they said, why? And I said, well, um, Mack, the guy who does the mixing there, is like one of the best engineers in the world. 

He's unreal. He's done it for God and everybody. Emmys everywhere, like, just, he's the dude, you know, and we're listening to the song, and we're just talking, you know, just talking, just talking this shit, you know, just being two engineers in a room, you know, just talking, hanging out, and he has all this stuff in this chair, like, just boxes of boxes of stuff in this chair, that's like, near him. 

And he gets it, you know, we record the band, I'm thinking, Ah, great, like, this sounds killer, like, I'm not gonna say a word to this guy. Like, I'm gonna say two things, and I'm just not gonna say a word. Well, he takes all the stuff off the chair, and he's like, Hey, sit up here. And I sit down, and I'm just like, Oh, well, that's really nice of him, but, you know, I figured I'd sit on the back couch, like, way far away from him, because he wants to create a distance. 

And he goes, you know, I usually put stuff in that chair because people are jerks when they come in here. Why don't you sit and listen to it? We listen to it one more time, and then he goes, Oh, by the way, like You seem like you really know the song, you really know all the pushes and the feels. Uh, we're gonna remix it and you're gonna mix it back. 

You ready? And I'm looking at my PM like, Oh my god, I'm not supposed to do this. I'm not supposed to touch this console. Like, this is wild. Like, how, why is this happening? And it's because I wasn't a douche, I asked the right questions, and he let me take it. And when I listened back to the recording, I'm like, Oh man, that could not have gone better. 

It was be it. It was, and it was just because I was there. Like I didn't know how to use the desk. It was a ginormous console, had no clue how to use it. And all I did was push the faders and I knew the song and I knew where to go. And I said that was the reason why that was the best day ever because of my best work day of all time 

Sean Walker: That's awesome, 

Ben Ivey: some dude like, let me, let me, let me, you know, try. 

But also he had all these great things in place that like gave me the ability to do that. 

Andy Leviss: Nice. 

Ben Ivey: You know, and to be like, you know what, yeah, I know I'm good, but like, you, you do this, you know the song, can you just do it, and I'm like, yeah, and it was, it was absolutely wild, but it was a, it was kind of a pillar moment for me, if I'm honest, like, kind of thinking, thinking back on it, that was back in March, um, of like, how I need to start things, but also just like, just great reminders for people who've been doing this for a long time, like, hey, if you don't be a jerk, like, things can actually work out. 

You know, and that whole experience set us up for the year for all these crazy asks and crazy experiences and I think that's why it went over so well. 

Sean Walker: Dude, good work. Good for you. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah, and we gotta, we gotta see if we can track that clip down, and we'll link it in the show notes so people can check it out. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, that was, that was a really cool, I mean, it's crazy when you do stuff like that because it's like stupid early in the morning and like, you know, you don't know what you're going to get and like you backline things but you're like, ah, is it going to be right? You know, and it was one of those days where like everything, all the T's were crossed, all the I's were dotted and it just worked. 

You know, and it's cause we did our job, but it doesn't always go like that. 

Sean Walker: Yeah. Totally. Totally. Okay. Dot nice and cross the T's. I'm gonna bring us way back to what you said about I don't know a few minutes ago, but you were talking about big drums. He said, there's four things you need for big drums. Was it actually four? Or was that like about four? Cause I can, I can think of three, I can think of like three things on the top of my head and I'm trying to struggle for the fourth, but like, what are the four things about four things you need for big drums for you? 

Ben Ivey: a good drummer, um, a, uh, drum key, uh, the right mics 

Andy Leviss: We'll come back to that. 

Ben Ivey: and feel. 

Sean Walker: Okay. 

Ben Ivey: I need those four things. 

Sean Walker: so much more technical. That is so much better than my answer. That is so much better than my answer. I was like, a good drummer, gain polarity and EQ. 

Ben Ivey: Well, you see, that's the thing. You're probably right. And that's the thing about sound. And that's also this like old school, new school guy in me. Like, 

Andy Leviss: Both, both, both is good. 

Ben Ivey: I don't time align the snare to the top. And like, I used to do stuff like that. And I just was like, nah, if it sounds good, it sounds good. You know, I, I became more of this guy as I did more of this type of music. 

Cause I'm just like, ah, if it sounds good, who cares, 

Sean Walker: I don't time a line, but the polarity is super important to me. 

Ben Ivey: Right. And that makes sense. 

Sean Walker: I don't like delay the things to the, like, I don't delay the snare to the overs or anything like that. And that's, there's nothing wrong if you do do that. But like, the polarity is super important to me because that's how I make sure that it's got the most impact for me. 

You 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, and that makes perfect sense. Um, and as you get in bigger arenas and bigger gigs, you actually do have to do those things. If you don't, it's, you're going to notice, and I learned that recently. Um, but yeah, like those are everything, but part of the, part of the reason for my last answer, feel, is because the drummer that I currently work with is all about that. 

That's all that boy cares about is feel. Oh, I didn't feel right today, Ben. Oh, well, why didn't you feel right today, bud? You know, and it would always drive me nuts, but like, that was everything. That's the rhythm sections built on those drums and that great, that great bass player that just are cohesive together, you know, like on a corporate show, if you're A1, A2 ain't cohesive. 

Problem, you know, um, if you're, if you and the artist are on a club tour and you guys aren't vibing, know, it's just, that's just kind of what you have to have, but he talked about feel so much this year that he would, maybe he would feel something on stage that was different out front and I'd be like, hey man, well it felt great out front and I gave him that reassurance, but that, that's, that's a big one for me. 

And, and that really, I, I, I've known that and I've felt that, but that kind of started because of what I did way back in the day doing R& B and hip hop, because all they care about is the low end. And that feel, and like, you never, you never, you know when low end's right, when you can feel that sub air move and like, kind of ripple and hit you when it comes back to front of house. That's when you know you got it. Like, that's when you know you have the right feel of, like, what they actually want. It's not about volume, it's about the feel of it. 

Sean Walker: So when you're doing That kind of a show and those guys are all about feel are you doing things like avoiding cardioid subwoofer arrays? So they've got that energy on stage or does that come into play for you? Or what how are you thinking about stuff like that? 

Ben Ivey: great, great question. I love Cardioid, actually. I love that because I can actually have more control over it and I can tame it better. Especially if I get to pick the deployment and, like, where it actually goes. So, like, on this tour, But on this past tour, for example, I didn't get to do any of that, and there were 28 subs underneath the risers. 

28! With front fills attached to them. So any night they said their mixes were muddy, I'm like, Guys, you got 28 speakers below you, moving low air. Welcome. Like, it is what it is. You're gonna have low mid buildup. You are gonna have it. You might think it's feeding back to you and how the feel is there, but it's 200 feet away, I No one knows what's happening, you know, um, but actually I, I actually, and I've, I've been this way all year. 

I actually prefer cardioid subs pretty much every time. Um, cause I feel like I can actually channel the energy better if that makes sense. 

Sean Walker: It absolutely makes sense and I love that all the energy is not in every microphone on the stage for me. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. Like that's actually one of the reasons why I went back to, I used to be a big left, left, right guy. And then I went back, as the gigs got bigger, to Left Right Sub Bill, just so I could tame it more, and I could have more control over it. Like, I like a lot of low end in my mixes, and like, I had a buddy, um, come to one of my gigs recently, and he was like, Man, I see what you mean about you liking low end, and I'm like, well yeah, if you have low, if you don't have low end, you have nothing. 

You have nothing for everything to build on top of, like, What are we doing here? Like, I, I know this is a country band, but like, if you can't hear or feel the kick drum, like, you, you have a problem. 

Andy Leviss: There's a reason we call it a kick drum and not a tap drum or a poke drum. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, like, there's, there's, there's reasons why that low information's really, really important. Why all your RTA software goes like this to start and then curves down. Like, there's, there's reasons for these things. Um, but, like, a lot of those tenets and, like, those things that I think about now, All started way back in the day. 

I just didn't know it. And now when I'm talking about these situations, I'm like, Oh yeah. Like my love for R& B and like feel was because I like mixed some guys that were amazing for so long, 

Sean Walker: awesome, dude. 

Ben Ivey: you know? So, 

Sean Walker: That's awesome. And what a like, what a blessing, man. What a what a treat to be able to not only have the introspection to understand that, but also to have that be the path. Like, I spent so long mixing fucking rippers. It's just ingrained to me now. You know what I mean? Like, how cool, dude? 

Ben Ivey: yeah. And, and it's, it's, I mean, cause that's what bands want. They want everything to feel right. Like that's what every band. It does not matter the size, or the artist, or label, no label, independent, your mom's your agent, like, they want the feel to be right, and they want it to feel good to them. Because then it feels like, like, what they're actually giving them is the right thing. 

And they might be totally wrong. They might be. But if they get off the stage and they go, man, I felt really good. Well, guess what? If my artist tells me that? I'll say, hey man, that's great. I'm not gonna tell him he's wrong. Are you serious? No, 

Sean Walker: be out of your mind to tell 

Ben Ivey: not. There's been so many gigs this year where it was just an absolute shit show and he comes off of going like, yeah, man Like that was sick. 

And I'm like, yeah, man, it was sick. You know, like you gotta know your client, know what you're doing. Um, but realistically with bands specifically like That's why I feel like engineers nowadays need to have more empathy for the guys on deck. They really do, because you, you got to get into their psyche to also to learn how to help them, but also to understand them, to know like, hey, this is going to really set this guy off if you don't do this. 

Or, hey, like, do you know what it's like to not be able to play an instrument on stage and not hear yourself? It sucks. 

Sean Walker: Sucks bad. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. And, and you might be like, ah, like you can deal with it. Like, well, yeah, just because Fred dealt with it in the seventies, doesn't mean you should deal with it now in an arena, 

Sean Walker: Yeah, we have the technology now to sort this out, like sort it out for your client, 

Ben Ivey: absolutely like we have such a cheat code now, like we, we do like back in the day when I was learning, like not even that long ago, you couldn't pull up a manual online, you had to go in the shop or get the gig to then learn the desk, like that, just what it was. 

Now there's a video on everything. And if I send a video to somebody and they don't know how to do something, that's on them. 

Sean Walker: Totally. 

Ben Ivey: It's not on, it's not on anybody else anymore. Like, welcome to the information age, buddy. 

Sean Walker: Are you running into a problem? Situations where people can't operate the desk on tour. 

Ben Ivey: Um, Oh yeah. 

Sean Walker: I didn't mean to make that quite such a loaded question. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So in touring, I think, and, and this is not a knock on a specific person. Sorry, people who listen to this, uh, budgets haven't caught up to like what it's like real life. It just hasn't caught up yet. Just not being mean, it just hasn't caught up yet. Um, it hasn't really caught up globally, but that's a whole other thing. 

Um, 

Sean Walker: Right. 

Ben Ivey: and part of that is you still need the guy that's the 2. 50 a day, 3. 50 a day person to do the van tour. Whereas if that was to either of you, you'd be like, 

not that it's bad. It just, you, you couldn't do it because you have bills to pay. You have a partner to look after for, you have kids to look after for like you, that would be dumb for you to do that gig. Now it doesn't mean that gig is wrong, but it hasn't caught up with it yet. And maybe they're the opening act on the stadium tour. 

Like that's, that's amazing. 

Sean Walker: And if you just came from doing club gigs to the opening of the stadium tour, you're fucking stoked. You don't, you almost don't care what it costs. You're like, I'm going fuck. Yeah. I'm going, dude. 

Ben Ivey: But at the same time, at the same time, the artist doesn't know that like, That 2. 50 a day guy is not the same as the 5. 50 a day guy at all, who quotes them that, you know, and that's, that's where the vacuum is. That's where it is right now. It's these managers and these artists that like try to nickel and dime because they're just starting out. 

It's not their fault. They are just starting out. They gotta do what they gotta do. So I don't fault them for that because it's so hard to make a microcosm of actually making it. I get it. But at the day, like, everybody's got to eat. You know, uh, uh, uh, one quick side tangent. I, uh, we did a bunch of shows on this tour with, like, unions and local hands and all kinds of stuff. 

And at one point, we were home in Atlanta and this lady, I said, I said, Hey, you know, thank you. guys for being our hands. Like, we super appreciate it. You know, you know, I know this loading was kind of hard, but like, we really appreciate your work. Thank you. I say that to pretty much everybody, you know, at the end of the day. 

And she said, no, thank you for coming. And it was different. It felt different to me because I was like, oh yeah, all these union gigs, they just get all the gigs they want and they don't have to really think about it. Like these guys like actually like had to have the gig booked on the calendar to then be able to go 

Sean Walker: Right, 

Ben Ivey: and then make their money. 

And it was just a different perspective. And I was like, oh, that's so nice. Like we're on the second last day of this tour and someone actually grateful to be here. Like, wow, that actually made an impact on me. 

Sean Walker: That's awesome. 

Ben Ivey: You know, so 

Sean Walker: Again, don't be a dick. 

Ben Ivey: yeah, like, 

Sean Walker: She wasn't being a jerk. She was like, I get it. I know where we're at. I know what's up. I know what this other person's going through, right? Like, way to make an impact, a positive impact on somebody's life. Way to make a, like, make their day better, dude. You know what I mean? 

Leave, leave this day better than you found it kind of a deal. 

Ben Ivey: yeah, uh, I wish it's really hard to remember those things when you're on a tour because of all the life things that you go through, you know, hard load ends, not having enough people, like just all this stuff that you go through. But like when you can finally like be quiet and like center yourself and remember that like, hey, like everybody just wants to do their job, make their money and like go home. 

There's nothing wrong with that. And we have to remember that, and it, and it's way easier said than done, because there's a few times on this past tour that I was ready to lose my mind. Like, just, just purely based off logistics alone, but it doesn't mean it wasn't worth it. And it's not like I had at the top of the year, I had that MSG circled on my calendar, because I did. 

Sean Walker: There you go. 

Ben Ivey: You know, like, it's worth, it was worth it. It was hard as balls, but it was worth it. 

Sean Walker: dude, being gone from home for anything for a long time is hard, right? Like it's hard to be away from your, you know, your wife or husband or whatever, you know what I mean? And if you get kids, your kids, like, that's super hard emotionally. And I'm not the one that usually talks about emotions, but like, that's a freaking hard thing to go do, you know? 

Let alone whatever's going on at work. Let alone whatever the complications are with being in events industry rather than just regular whatever work, work, you know what I mean? Like, it's hard enough to travel if you're selling insurance, let alone if you got crazy hours like touring for a frickin rock band, dude. 

You know? 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. And, and that's why, like Having that support system is so key at home, but also, like, knowing what you guys can do together. So, like, my wife and I, like, we, I call it the 17 21 day rule. If I'm gone longer than that, I have to come home if there's two days off. I don't care if the artist flies me out. 

Cool. I don't have to pay for it. Awesome. Or, hey, we can't do that. You're gonna have to do it on your own. I go, okay, I'll do that. It's expensive. It's very annoying when you look at your budget, 

Sean Walker: Yeah, right? 

Ben Ivey: but we have to do it. We have to do it. Like, that's when we get disconnected. That's just like, our moment of like, Oh, I'm, you know, I'm not really there, or like, Oh, I, I missed this at school, or I don't know what's going on in our friend group. 

Like, all that kind of stuff. Um, and that's just worked for us. So on this tour, we were gone 9 weeks, or 11 weeks, and I was able to come home every 3 weeks. 

Sean Walker: That's awesome, dude. 

Ben Ivey: And I got home the last day, and my wife looked at me, and you know, she's of course so excited I'm home, my daughter's freaking out, like, we're all, it's this very harmonious, very wonderful moment, and she looks at me and she goes, you know, this was not as bad as I thought it was, it was gonna be, I thought it was gonna be way harder, and I was like, you know why? 

It's because of our rule. Because of our rule and the fact that you had something to do, but like, that just worked for us. 

Sean Walker: That's awesome, 

Ben Ivey: And I think people, people don't work to find that, as far as like, what's going to work for you. Because it might be totally different from somebody else. It might be like, some people can do it for six months. 

Some people do it, can't do it two days. You know, like, whatever that is, like, you need to find that role that works for you and then works for your, for your significant other. And I think a lot of guys don't take time to do that nowadays. And if COVID taught us anything, like, We can take a day off. We can take a break. 

Let's figure this out. 

Andy Leviss: yeah, it's, it's funny, it's like a day for talking about that cause right before we got online here I was just grabbing coffee with my friend David Berkowitz who's the house head at the National Theater in D. C. and is in, in New York for a couple days and one thing we were talking about at, at the end of our visit was that like even doing corporate stuff like where it's like I'm gone for like four days, a week, whatever, like I've had a couple gigs in the last year even before the baby was here. 

Where I realized that, you know, it's going to cost me like 150, 200, 300 out of pocket, but I can go home tonight instead of tomorrow morning, or I can get home at 11 today instead of at like 11 at night, and it's almost always worth it. Like, it's going to be a little out of my pocket, like it's, you know, costing me, you know, a couple days PD, or like, you know, taking a little off the day rate of the travel day, but like, you can't put a price tag on that, particularly like, but just, yeah, like, and Both the, like, getting home to, like, be there with the family, the getting off the road a little sooner, and just, like, and just showing to your partner, like, hey, look, when I have to travel, I'm going to travel, but when I've got the opportunity to go home, even if it makes me have to rush around a little more or spend a little more I'm gonna do it. 

'cause you're what matters first? 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, like, just like everything in this conversation, I feel like you gotta give value to people. To like make good choices and make those informed decisions like an artist. Well you gotta give that, that data to your family too. You gotta make sure you give them your schedule. You gotta make sure that you're communicating with them. 

You gotta make sure that like, hey, if, if you know what your day looks like everyday, like when it's a headline tour and everyday I'm off by 3. 30, well by 4 o'clock I need to FaceTime you. You know, like whatever those like little internal rhythms are. That you need to get in, like that's what you need to do. 

Or maybe you're significant other doesn't like talking on the phone. Well, maybe you need a text or maybe on that tour, you do need to pick up the phone. You know, like whatever those little things are, like, like I always try to get like little routines on the road. Cause it just helps me like, just be a better person. 

Like, always going and getting coffee first, always being first in catering to go through the line, like, to say hi to people, and like, even though I don't want to, because I don't like the morning, um, just doing those little things help me be better, so like, when the truck dumps, I'm not a jerk, in the exact moment, you know, like, whatever those little things are, like, You gotta set yourself up for success, cause you can just as well just plumb it down, and think this is sucks, and life is pain, everything's awful, you know, like, we can all do that very, very quickly, but like, if we don't set ourselves up for success, like, we're, we're done for, especially on the road, especially on the road, and even in corporate too, like, I remember when I did that a bunch, I That was almost harder schedule because I was, I was freelance and I was hopping and hopping this two days here, seven days here, nine days here, 11 days here, this, this, this, this, this, this, you know, always looking for the next thing. 

And it was always, that's really challenging. That hustle, that's no joke. 

Sean Walker: Totally. 

Ben Ivey: that's really, really challenging. So, you know, I've, I've done that in different seasons of my life, but yeah, kudos to you, Andy, because that is not easy, especially with wanting to be home to your, you know, newborn. And all that. 

Andy Leviss: Yeah. The, 

Sean Walker: Sorry, go ahead, 

Andy Leviss: oh no, I was gonna say that's, I've like, and, and I mean that's the compromise too. Like, I've taken a, a part-time gig for the next couple months, just like 

Ben Ivey: Mm hmm. 

Andy Leviss: kind of doing like more leg, the logistical side of, you know. Comms and audio for a broadcast facility just cause 

Ben Ivey: Nice. 

Andy Leviss: one of those like, hey, it's, it's, you know, it's commuting but it's local commuting and like it's a, it's a three day a week guarantee. 

Like is it, it's not the same three days every week necessarily, but I know for these few months while kids home on maternity leave, like I've got, you know, I've got a predictable income coming in so we can manage that and it's, yeah, it's about figuring out what makes the sense in the moment there. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. And that's super smart. That's, that's just, that's one thing about that, that people in this industry that are great at is being adaptable to change and, and knowing when you need to do stuff. And like, maybe one tour of this needs to be your role. Maybe you're not always the front of house guy. Maybe you need the monitor guy. 

Maybe you need to be the The dad at home. Maybe you need to be the, Hey, like you can get off the road for a couple of weeks just cause you just need to be home and just be home. Like there's nothing wrong with that. Like I would love to eliminate some more debt in my life, but like one gig I canceled the other day and I was kind of bummed about it. 

She's like, Oh, well at least you'll be home. I'm like, you're right. I will be home. 

Sean Walker: And kind of to your, your point, the other, you were talking about like, being the first in catering and not being a jerk when the truck dumps and you know, not spiraling down, like, the thing to remember is, we chose this, 

Ben Ivey: Mm hmm. 

Sean Walker: we chose this life or this show or this gig or this whatever, right? Like, go do the best you can for you and for your show. 

You know what I mean? So if you need to be the first one in catering so that you got your coffee and your morning routine and your eggs or whatever you're doing when the truck dumps, go do that. If you need to sleep until two minutes before the truck dumps, fire back a Red Bull and get there, and that's what works for you, go do that. 

Or whatever your thing is, right? But like, 

Ben Ivey: whatever. 

Sean Walker: the, the overarching thing to remember is like, when you get up and you have those hard moments and you're like, ugh, like, you chose this, dude. This is not somebody else's fault. This is your responsibility to get up, put on your big boy or girl pants, and get to it. 

You know what I mean? And when it's done, if you don't want to do it again, that's okay, but don't make it everybody else's problem, right? Don't be, like, shitting on everybody else and venting on everybody else about, Oh, I don't want to be up in there this morning, or, Oh, I'm tired, or, like We know, dude, you're all doing the same thing, like everybody's on the same schedule, dude, you know? 

Ben Ivey: and there's also tons of other people that would want your job. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, dude! 

Ben Ivey: That's a whole nother thing 

Sean Walker: Yeah, totally. 

Ben Ivey: I can get, I can get bitchy by our schedule or the weird routing. Love ya, agency. Um, like, oh we can, we can get, we can rip real big about it, but at the same time, when they give you that big handshake at the end of the tour, like, hey man, you freaking did it. 

Like, I'm proud of you. That's it. That's it. That's it right there. 

Sean Walker: Absolutely. And, not everybody's looking for the same type of gig, right? Everybody's got a different gig they're looking for. You know what I mean? I can't go for six weeks or nine weeks. I can't go. I'll freak out. You know what I mean? I need to go do, like, I would love to go do fly dates. 

I would go, love to go do, for like, an artist that does cool shows but isn't like, Major headline all the time. Somebody liked the Cadillac 3. Where you like, you get to go, you get to knock out like Midset, Watershed, Mainstage, and then you're like cool man, I'm out, go back to see The Wife and Kids, you know what I mean, like, go make some real show, get the fuck out and see The Wife and Kids, and do that 50 times a year instead of like, you know, 70 weeks a year and you're just freaking gone all the time, my kids wouldn't even know who I was when I got home, you know what I mean, like 

Ben Ivey: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I totally identify with that. Um, but that's the other thing too. I think sometimes people don't have their perspective, like they feel like they're locked in their gig or they're like locked in their situation. But like I would think about gigs like seasons, you know, like this season I'm doing this and it's not to make it feel temporary to not be non committal because like I'm Like, I'm about as most committed as I am to my artists at this point, like, it's a definitely a different situation for me, like, it's a weird, it's a weird time, but like, in this season, like, I wanted that security, and I wanted to be able to focus on one thing and crush it. 

Sean Walker: Yeah dude. 

Ben Ivey: Every single day, I want to be able to crush it, whatever that is, if that's crushing it in advance, if that's learning about a new type of gear, like, whatever that is, like, I want to be able to do that. But, like, at the same time, like, I talked about earlier how I learned. How to really know about a lot of gear is because of corporate. 

Nothing wrong with corporate, man. 

Sean Walker: No man, that's how most of us make our livings. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, like that bill, that bill's gonna pay. And at the same time, like, I can learn that new com rig, or I can learn that new whatever, or I can know that it's all crappy and I just need to go get paid and shut up. 

Sean Walker: I mean, bro. It's a balance, right, of finding the things that'll pay the bills and things that'll, like, soothe your soul, right? And like, you know, my out of town corporate rates double my in town rock and roll rate. know what I mean? And that's true for a lot of people. I'm not saying that just like, oh, brr. 

Like, that's true for a lot of people, where like, if you're flying around for corporate, you're, you better get it sorted out, cause that's a, that's a whole ass gig, bro. That's not a half ass gig. You know what I mean? But if you're just, somebody's got like, you know, somebody comes to you tomorrow and says, yo man, I got, I got, you know, 500 bucks for you to go mix this band at some thousand cap club. 

You're like, fuck yeah, let's go down the street for the night and knock it out and come home to the wife and kids and make 500 bucks. You know what I mean? But if they're like, hey man, I mean, as you fly halfway across the country, it's going to be days and days and days, and you're going to have to deal with a whole bunch of fricking wound type people. 

You're like, yeah, man, I'm going to get that whole rate. You know what I mean? Like, I'm going to get that whole rate to go do 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. Yeah, oh, for sure. Or, hey, like, I, I'm gonna need this, this, and this to be able to, to get this done. It's not that you're bougie, it's not that, whatever, it's just you know what it's gonna need to take to do that. 

Sean Walker: I know the standards that are, that are set. I know that that CEO better sound like a golden god when they walk out on stage or everybody's fired including myself. You know what I mean? 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. And, and all of it's important too. I think that's another thing. People think that like some gigs are more important than others. Like, you know, and that is not the case, especially for your client that walks in the door. Like. Like, we have to remember when we listen to these corporate events, like, this might be the one event they do a year, that this homegirl that looks like she can't plan an event has been planning her whole day, and then the CEO goes to the box and goes, let's change it all. 

She has to do that. She has to be able to be susceptible to that. As much as that sucks for all of us, well, yeah, man, you might have to say two more X's over to OT. Oh, darn shucks. 

Sean Walker: And, and reminder, she hired your ass to bail her out when those situations happen, right? She hired you and your company to make sure that she looks like a superstar to her boss, 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, exactly, and you just have to deal with that, like, that's part of the 

Sean Walker: Absolutely. 

Ben Ivey: part of the thing, like, uh, there was a few times on this tour where we wouldn't have hands at certain times, or they would be on break, or we wouldn't have enough, and I 

Sean Walker: Start pushing, bud. 

Ben Ivey: yeah, I'd be super annoyed, but I'm like, alright guys, like, hey, I need everybody's space left, we gotta get all these risers on deck, 

Sean Walker: Start 

Ben Ivey: go. 

And it is what it is, you know? But a lot of people can't, can't deal with that. 

Sean Walker: Totally. Totally. Is there anything, we're getting to about the hour mark, is there anything we didn't ask you that you wish we would have asked you? 

Ben Ivey: Oh gosh. I felt like I went all over the place. Um, 

Sean Walker: If not, it feels like a good place to wrap up and not keep everybody for two hours like Andy and I tend to do 

Ben Ivey: care. It doesn't matter to me. 

Andy Leviss: I was going to say the one other 

Ben Ivey: am not that important. No 

Andy Leviss: say the question I'll throw out at the end to wrap us up real quick because I get yelled at when we forget to ask is, we're coming to visit in Atlanta, where should we go eat? Speaking 

Sean Walker: Oh 

Ben Ivey: where can you eat? 

Sean Walker: Someplace on Peachtree. 

Ben Ivey: Well, there's like 82 of 

Sean Walker: That's what I'm saying. They're all called Peachtree. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, it's all really confusing. It just depends on how much traffic you want. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, right? 

Ben Ivey: Um, Ooh, that's really hard. So I, I live, um, 40 minutes North of Atlanta. Um, so I obviously I know great places in Atlanta, but it really depends on the food that you want. Um, so if I'm downtown and I want pizza, and I know you guys are like New York guys or whatever, I'm going to Antico. 

100 percent I'm going to Antico. It's the best, one of the best places in the 

Sean Walker: I'm coming to you for pizza, dude. Screw Andy and his fancy ass Domino's pizza. I'm coming to you for pizza, dude. 

Ben Ivey: Yeah, dude, 

Sean Walker: I'm in Seattle, so I'm flying all the way across the country, but I'll come 

Ben Ivey: That sounds great. Um, I love Seattle, actually. This is what, Pacific Northwest, one of my favorite places in the world. Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm coming there for sure. 

Um, if I want wings, I gotta, you gotta go to Match City. You gotta do it one time. You gotta do it one time. Like, 

Sean Walker: Short shorts and everything or no? 

Ben Ivey: everything. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, yeah. 

Ben Ivey: All of it. You have to, just one 

Sean Walker: Let's do it. 

Ben Ivey: Um, just one time. I love Thai food. Thai food's really, really good. There's so much great Thai food in Atlanta. Like, you just throw a, you know, Throw a rock and you'll find it, you 

Sean Walker: All right, let me interject real quick because, you know, I'm so shy. Do you guys also, like myself, judge people by how hot or not they order their Thai food? 

Ben Ivey: Ooh. 

Sean Walker: am judging motherfuckers. Like I should never admit to in public, because if you're an engineer and you ordered zero star fucking Thai food, you're boring as fuck, bro. 

Ben Ivey: You 

Sean Walker: Three stars or better or get the fuck off my crew. 

Ben Ivey: Man, Sean, I didn't know that I was gonna like you as much as I do, but this is awesome. I 

Andy Leviss: to him every week. 

Ben Ivey: I love this so much. I love this so much. Um, so 

Sean Walker: you're that boring, like get out dude. 

Ben Ivey: man, like, uh, I had this one guy on my crew for this tour that's, that's, he eats like a four year old. He, he eats worse than my five year old. He'd have, like, dinner rolls and all this stuff, and he's like, oh, well, it wasn't good, or they didn't know this, and we took him to Indian one day, um, on this past tour, and he's like, man, this is all, like, really good, and I'm like, yeah, because you're actually eating real things that have, like, cumin in 

Sean Walker: ain't chicken nuggets and fucking mac and cheese, bro. 

Ben Ivey: They have stuff in it. They have flavor, you know, like that's why you like it. That's why everybody at this table is so happy that we chose this restaurant in 

Sean Walker: Yeah, dude. Totally. 

Ben Ivey: why everyone's like, Oh, like I don't care about anything else like that. That's what it is. 

Sean Walker: That's awesome. 

Ben Ivey: yeah, I love, I love that you judge people. 

That sounds so much fun. Um, 

Sean Walker: Okay. Try it next time. Try it. Just be like, you know, when you watch people order and you'll see that, like, if you know them well, you'll see that in their personality. You'll be like, you know what? They are boring, like, zero star, nobody, like, Did you order white rice and plain chicken, you boring ass motherfucker? 

Like, 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. Oh man. That's, that's so funny. 

Sean Walker: then the ones that are like, Yo, man, let me get that five star Thai hot, like, Like, hot as you can make it, you're like, You live with cats. Like, 

Ben Ivey: Yeah. You ate 

Sean Walker: at no time are we letting you back on the bus, man. You gotta, like, head for the showers before you get to the 

Ben Ivey: Or my TM would literally tell me like, Hey man, I'm going to the hotel lobby. I'm like, see ya, bud. 

Sean Walker: see you bud. 

Ben Ivey: And I'm like, you know, you like text him, like, hope it's okay in there. 

Sean Walker: Yeah, right. You know, I'll bring you some dude wipes. Don't worry about it, dog. 

Ben Ivey: Uh, dude, uh, pro tip, 

Sean Walker: Oh my god. Well, 

Ben Ivey: We ate so much great food on this tour, by the way. It was so good. It was so much great food. Oh, 

Sean Walker: I bet. 

Ben Ivey: talk about that 

Sean Walker: Well, thank you for hanging with us, dude. We're gonna wrap it up about the hour mark here. Thanks to Allen and Heath for, you know, letting us do it. Thanks. Huge thanks to RCF for letting us do it. That's the pod, y'all. See you next week.

Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green