Signal To Noise Podcast
The Signal to Noise podcast features conversations with people from all corners of the live sound industry, from FOH and monitor engineers, tour managers, Broadway sound designers, broadcast mixers, system engineers, and more.
Signal To Noise Podcast
290. Cody Heimann, RF Applications Engineer At Sound Devices
Episode 290 goes all in on wireless as Andy is joined by Cody Heimann, RF applications engineer at Sound Devices as well as a veteran RF coordinator for large-scale events. In the first of two episodes, he talks about how his career grew and led to finding a niche as an RF coordinator for events and clients such as Coachella, New Year’s Eve in Times Square, and some of the largest corporate events and conventions in the world. This episode is sponsored by Allen & Heath and RCF.
In a wide-ranging conversation, Cody shares tips and advice for handling large events, making wise choices about compromises to fit hundreds of channels of RF into tight spaces, and much more!
After starting his career as an audio assistant, he became a stage tech and patch master, moving through the ranks to monitor and front of house engineer, PA tech, and production manager. He’s been involved in all things audio, which has allowed him to build a diverse portfolio in troubleshooting, technical skills and client relationships.
Now, as an RF applications engineer, he’s definitely no stranger to being agile and working in different mediums of the industry. In April of 2024, Cody joined the RF Applications Team at Sound Devices where he largely works largely in product development, technical support, education, and large-scale and complex deployments of the company’s Astral wireless systems.
Cody loves fitness and the outdoors; he was a part-owner of Music City Boxing in Nashville, met his wife rock climbing as well as an avid motorcycle enthusiast and self-proclaimed “once upon a time drummer.” It’s no doubt that music has been a passion of his since his youth and he loves being able to help continue to be a small part in the big shows!
Episode Links:
Cody Heimann On LinkedIn
Practical Show Tech 15: RF Over Fiber, Multi-Antenna Systems & More
Practical Show Tech 23: Basics Of Frequency Coordination Using PWS IAS
Sound Devices Astral Wireless Family
Grownsy Baby Nasal Aspirator
Powered Ear Wax Remover
Episode 290 Transcript
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The Signal To Noise Podcast on ProSoundWeb is co-hosted by pro audio veterans Andy Leviss and Sean Walker.
Episode 290 - Cody Heimann, Large Scale RF Coordination
Note: This is an automatically generated transcript, so there might be mistakes--if you have any notes or feedback on it, please send them to us at signal2noise@prosoundweb.com so we can improve the transcripts for those who use them!
Voiceover: You’re listening to Signal to Noise, part of the ProSoundWeb podcast network, proudly brought to you this week by the following sponsors:
Allen & Heath, whose new dLive RackUltra FX upgrade levels up your console with 8 next-generation FX racks – putting powerful tools like vocal tuning, harmonizing, and amp simulation right at your fingertips. Learn more at allen-heath.com
Hear the Power of Precision: RCF presents the & TT+ Audio GTX System live in Fort Lauderdale. Don’t miss your chance to experience the future of concert sound with RCF’s revolutionary GTX system, live and in person. Time is running out—Visit RCF-USA.com for more info, and/or use the link on the page for this episode on ProSoundWeb.
Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green
Andy Leviss: Hey, welcome to another episode of Signal to Noise. I'm your host, Andy Leviss, and with me this week is not the frequency to my modulation Mr. Sean Walker. 'cause uh, I just texted Sean. I was like, dude, where are you? And he is on spring break with his kids at home and totally lost track of what day it is, which is, I...I feel that...I've had a week that I've been fighting both baby's first cold at six months old and I caught as cold too. So the fact that one of us actually remembered we had this on the schedule today. Here, here we are. So, but, um, we've got a really cool guest too, is. One of those people that I'm surprised we've never talked in person before. 'cause I feel like I've known of you for a long time and like we are in like similarly overlapping circles, but we've never crossed paths.
And I was recently talking to another coworker of yours at your day gig that we're gonna get into in a little bit about coming onto the show. And then Sean was like, yo, I'm talking to, to Cody. We should have him on. So, uh, today we've got Cody Heimann joining me, who working backwards, uh, works for sound devices, uh, these days, uh, but is has been one of those names that if you're in the the wireless world at all, you probably have heard Cody's name or worked with Cody or know if Cody like, um, I mean, I'm not gonna sit here and keep talking about you 'cause you can do a, a lot better job of telling folks who you're, what you've done.
But, uh, welcome. I'm, I'm glad we made this happen. Uh, sorry Sean isn't joining us today, but uh, he sends his best. He was like, you kids have fun. Have fun without me, it's fine.
Cody Heimann: Oh man, that's all good. Uh, I get it for sure. Uh, I have a three and a half year old, uh, as well. So, uh, you were mentioning the, uh, you know, them getting a cold from somewhere and then you get it and the, uh, the sicknesses just run through the family, so, uh Yep. No stranger to that whole
Andy Leviss: literally first two days in like short-term daycare before we start proper daycare and already came home with a cold,
Cody Heimann: yep, yep. It is just definitely gonna happen. That's just part of it, but
Andy Leviss: Yeah, we, we've gone from like the, the, I mean this is getting to like the nerdy gadgetry of parenting, but like we have like the little, like the manual Frida snot sucker thing.
It's like, it looks like, it looks like a, a weird kazoo with like a filter in it that he likes. And like that was enough that it was like, I'm like, wait, there's gotta be an automatic one. So we found like another, another parent friend as far as recommended this like powered one that we call it the snot amatic now.
And it's like, baby's not any happier about it, but it gets the job done better and a little faster.
Cody Heimann: Yep, yep.
Andy Leviss: Yeah, it's.
Cody Heimann: think as roadies we always find, uh, find awesome ways to help, you know, so it's, you know, always trying to problem solve and even with the kiddos
Andy Leviss: Yep. It's like, it's like, it's like for those of you that are like inner nerds, it's like, take a Jodi vac, but make it like big enough to like stick it a nostril.
Cody Heimann: disgusting.
Andy Leviss: my God. Yeah. Cleaning it out is just like,
Cody Heimann: It is brutal.
Andy Leviss: yep, yep. But it does the tr I actually, I actually probably need to get like a Jody Vac or something soon.
'cause I've got, I've got new, uh, new customs just came in last week, so
Cody Heimann: Well, and uh, yeah, here in Tennessee we are definitely hitting, uh, allergy season. You know, you can probably hear it in the voice here. So all of that, uh, you know, the nose, the in ears, the everything, man, I just, you know, gotta get rid of all that junk.
Andy Leviss: yep, yep, yep. And the I've, yeah. And the, what's it, uh, like Netty potter or like the pressurized wand, which is like, it's self water boarding is what it, is. It really.
Cody Heimann: That's a, I'm gonna actually refer to it as that way from now on. That's
Andy Leviss: Yeah. Yeah. Like the instructions are always like, breathe normally. I'm like, how there, there's no breathing normally in. Yeah. There's no breathing normally involved here. That has
Cody Heimann: Filling my head full of water.
Andy Leviss: Yeah. Um, so yeah, I'm, I mean it's, I I almost want to do the, like we haven't started in a while with it.
Should we do the, what's the coolest thing in Arm's Reach?
Cody Heimann: right. Let's do it.
Andy Leviss: Yeah. Um, I mean, I want to go two ways. 'cause one is I did get the new ins, which we had Tall and Dave from Dark Matter audio on recently, and my dmma sixes showed up last week. And they're with like the, the neural, uh, bro burled, maple, uh, face plates and all. So little kinda acoustic guitar vibe going. And I am loving the, like, as much as like Sean and I raved about the generics when we heard of McNair, I'm like getting the customs has been, they're, they're stellar.
The, the guys are doing really great job. And if you haven't listened to that episode, folks go back a couple episodes. Listen to the one with Tall and Dave from Dark Matter, like talking about like what they're doing and just like so much about just how ins are designed in general. Like I learned so much in that episode.
Um,
Cody Heimann: Yeah. Yeah. It's always very cool to hear about some of those intricacies that we take for granted, right. Within the, oh, it's just, it's, it's my ears. Right? And then you, you dive into that whole part of it. And being in manufacturing now too, like, it's just you, you approach everything in such a different way, you know, and how you're thinking about it all.
So that's cool.
Andy Leviss: Well, and then the, the other cool gadget I have is, is on a similar vein of both the snot automatic and, and the in ears is, I've got this like generic branded automatic ear washer. I got off
Cody Heimann: Perfect.
Andy Leviss: other day 'cause, uh, because I know we've talked about like cleaning ears on the show before, and I had like a pump style one that like, you literally sit there like with like a spray bottle for 20 minutes and I was like, somebody has to have automated this and it doesn't even have a brand name on it.
It's like, it was like with a coupon, it was like 1999. So like there's a little.
Cody Heimann: ear cleaner. Yeah.
Andy Leviss: Pretty much, yeah, I was like, I was like, we're gonna try into the bathroom first and make sure it does what it's supposed to before it goes remotely near my ear, but seems, seems to work into the trick. So, so that's my So what, what about you?
What's the coolest thing you've got on Arm's Reach?
Cody Heimann: Oh man. I feel like I gotta bridge the gap between, uh, health products and technology here now. Okay.
Andy Leviss: I said, or you could chill for the day gig, either way.
Cody Heimann: right. Okay. Well, uh, you know, full on brag, I, I've got a, uh, super nexus times two with two opto boxes running in mirror mode right next to me right now. So I'll call that, uh, you know, my pretty sweet technology within reach, uh, gadgets, uh,
Andy Leviss: we will circle back to that later and explain what exactly all those, know what all those words mean individually, and I'm sure most of all listeners do, they probably don't know what they mean in that sequence, so
Cody Heimann: Uh, and then, you know, my, uh, oh man, my potion of, uh, medical grade allergy drops, right? All the things I'm allergic to in concentrated form. You take this daily,
Andy Leviss: Oh, like the sublingual.
Cody Heimann: Absolutely.
Andy Leviss: I'm, I'm like a year and a half into that
Cody Heimann: Oh, dude. Yep. With the, the roadie stuff. I couldn't do the shots. So this was the option. And, uh, you know, I feel like this is kind of the pinnacle of health for me.
You know, it's like they've, this thing is made for me, you know? So,
Andy Leviss: Yep. That's, it's, it's pretty wild. And that is the, so, so for, for anybody who hasn't done, it's like, it's the same, it's the same stuff they give you in allergy shots, but you, but it's in like a glycerin liquid that you put a couple drops under your tongue and then you have to let it sit under your tongue without swallowing for two minutes.
So in my house, that is known as my wife's favorite two minutes of the day. 'cause it's the two minutes she gets to say whatever she wants to me, I've gotta sit there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Cody Heimann: Yep.
Andy Leviss: And then the timer goes off and I swallow and just string all the, all the responses right back at her?
Cody Heimann: It's scary enough too. It's like the most casually induced form of like possible catastrophe, right? It's like I'm
Andy Leviss: Yeah.
Cody Heimann: on purpose throwing everything that I'm allergic to into my body, and I've got like this EpiPen right next to me every single time because I'm like, oh God,
Andy Leviss: well, yeah, like when I, when I did it, 'cause like their fee covers everything but the EpiPen and then they're like, it's technically optional. If you want it or not, we recommend it.
Cody Heimann: Wink, wink.
Andy Leviss: And I'm sitting here like, do I feel like a gambling man?
Cody Heimann: Yep. Not in that
Andy Leviss: is the nearest?
Yeah, how close is the nearest er?
Cody Heimann: Yeah,
Andy Leviss: Like, at this point, like a year and a half in, I'm like, ah, at this point I know what to expect. But like, yeah, the first couple days it's like you, you get a little caught and then like, I think it's like the first month it's less, and then the second month is like the higher dose of the second month.
Suddenly it hits you again like you don't expect, and you're like, what the fuck?
Cody Heimann: Yeah. Am I gonna die? Am I gonna die? Yep.
Andy Leviss: Yeah. Folks, welcome to the Signal to Noise Personal Health podcast. We're like eight minutes in. We've barely talked to audio. People are like, what the fuck is going?
Cody Heimann: Fast forward.
Andy Leviss: Apparently it turns out Shauna's the one who holds the whole thing together.
Cody Heimann: Yeah. We're going rogue here. Yep.
Andy Leviss: Alright. All right. So, so rewinding, so, um, why don't you give us a little, like, how'd you first get into audio and then like, I, I guess sort of hinted at folks, you've, you've got a, a specialty on like the RF side of things. Like, want to take, take us What got you to there?
Cody Heimann: definitely. Yeah. Um, it's definitely was kind of a weird, uh, start in progression through my career. Uh, I attended the Conservatory of Recording Arts and Sciences in Phoenix. Um, before that, uh, I was a, a percussionist and I actually had a scholarship to go do percussive arts in school. And, uh, I was from North Dakota and was living in North Dakota.
And, you know, it kind of dawned on me that there wasn't a lot of really cool like tech or music kind of opportunities out there. And so hence the reason I went to the conservatory and, um, really just kind of wanted to bridge the gap between, you know, the musical performance side and the tech side. And as I was there, um, uh, who became, uh, one of my greatest friends in the world and who hasn't actually now since passed, but, uh, came through that school as an alumni and invited me to move to Nashville and, and go on tour.
And, uh, it was just this weird happenstance of circumstances. And, uh, lo and behold, I ended up on Barney the Dinosaur, uh, as my first tour
Andy Leviss: All right. Uh, Sesame Street Live was my second, so I feel
Cody Heimann: There you go, man. Yep. Yep. So I was running feeder and just loving every single minute of it. And, um, you know, instead of this pursuit of going to do, uh, you know, film scores and whatnot in LA and recording studios, I ended up, uh, you know, living in Nashville with my buddy and doing some of these tours.
And that morphed a little bit into doing some, uh, you know, uh, recording studio type stuff. I was a house engineer for a couple years and I even worked as a, a little bit of a producer on some records and had a lot of fun with that, but never really kind of itched, you know, sufficed for that itch for me.
And so I got more into live sound and as that went through, um, we, you know, started trying the PA tech job and the monitor engineer job and the patch tech job and everything you could imagine on the audio side of things. And the weird part about that was every time I saw myself in a different position, something with RF ended up.
Approaching me, right? Whether we were having a challenge with RF or whether or not we were using new equipment and hardware or having to deploy it in a certain way. And it was just kind of this fascinating cloud that was always following me. And, uh, I remember, uh, one show we had, uh, a pretty, pretty rough go at it, uh, because of the amount of RF challenges.
And that was the day where I said, you know, this isn't gonna be the bane of my existence anymore. This isn't gonna be this weird cloud, and I'm gonna learn everything I can about RF and, uh, you know, figure out why things are happening and how to embrace the gear more. And, uh, that was, you know, almost 12 years ago, uh, 14 years ago at this point.
And, um, kind of honed in my career from there with rf. So it was, uh, a very weird start, but I was really glad to be able to kind of hone in all that.
Andy Leviss: Professional audio engineer suddenly can't find the mute button. I swear I do this every week. Um, uh, cool. And like, and I mean, we should give folks back, like, like when we say you, you do our f like aside from the manufacturing side, like we're talking like, like you wanna give us like the highlights reel of, of the sort of events you've done, just to give, give folks an idea of what scale we're talking.
Cody Heimann: Sure. Yeah. So I mean, a lot of it
Andy Leviss: a second.
Cody Heimann: uh, a lot of it started as just, you know, being an RF tech and, and really learning it and working hand in hand with monitor engineers and going out on tour and, and that thing. And where that started to really develop was when I learned about being an overall coordinator, uh, and going into some of these shows as the RF coordinator.
Instead of the RF tech. And that really kind of spread my wings as far as what was available to me, available to me for shows. And, you know, since then, uh, I've, I've had the honor of getting to work with just some of the greatest people in our industry and, and some of the best RF folks out there. And, you know, I'm just, will always be forever grateful about the mentorship that I received with, with those folks and getting the opportunity to let them, you know, uh, work with me and vice versa.
Um, and a lot of that turned into shows. You know, I was the head coordinator for New Year's Eve and Times Square for a few years. Uh, I got to work as the main stage RF technician at Coachella. Uh, I got to support incredible RF engineers and coordinators on a lot of the award shows, uh, the great Jason Glass on the CMT awards and, um, you know, all these just different things.
And it, it kind of, it was weird because there was never a specific style at gig that I was doing. Um, you know, it was everything from festivals to. Uh, corporate shows the, the Dreamforce convention, uh, that I got to work with, with the incredible folks at Professional Wireless and, you know, we're doing, you know, five, six coordinators covering 10 properties and thousands of frequencies and, you know, the middle of San Francisco.
And it just, it, it became this fascination of trying to get to these bigger shows and do more numbers and get more frequencies in. And it just became so much fun and, and seeing everyone else that I was getting to work with have that same passion for this really, really made it fun.
Andy Leviss: Right on. And I mean the, and that is such a wide, but like, why don't we give folks a little idea of like what, like what that spectrum event, because like, I think even like within an event, the scale of Coachella folks have a pretty solid handle on like what would be involving coordinating RF for that.
But like, once you get to something like, like New Year's Eve, times Square, like what's for folks listening to home, like what's typically involved in coordinating a, a job like that.
Cody Heimann: Yeah, that one definitely, uh, was probably one of the more difficult shows, um, just from the idea that, you know, you, you kind of are acting as somewhat of a production manager when you're a coordinator, right? 'cause you're dealing with so many different avenues of people you're dealing with, you know, client focused stuff and vendor focused stuff, and band focused.
And you, you're kind of bridging this gap between a lot of different people. And, uh, so with New Year's Eve Times Square, you know, the hard part is you have all these incumbent or existing, uh, you know, shows and, and venues and people that are already operating in Times Square and need to operate in Times Square, even through the show.
Right? And that's literally hundreds of channels. Um, so you're, without even starting the show, your coordination has hundreds of channels just to begin with. Um. And then lack of spectrum, right? I think anyone listening to the podcast is no stranger to some of these things we've heard about with the FCC and, and the spectrum shrinking and what's accessible and you know, part 15 and part 74 licensing and how we, you know, get into all that.
And that really, really plays. Big into something like New Year's Eve, times Square too, because you kind of have to look at, you know, not only a hierarchy of who's getting what and how to coordinate that stuff, but then man, just the amount of people that come in and don't know they need to be coordinated.
Right. Uh, and
Andy Leviss: it's, it's only
Cody Heimann: theirs. Yeah, exactly. Right. And, and you hear that so much and that's really any show, but that part of it really makes the job fun, but also extraordinarily challenging, right? 'cause you have to not only explain to people why coordination matters and why it's important, even though they're doing this five minute hit, you know?
10 hours before the show, but it's affecting this person and this rehearsal and this, you know, and um, so the idea of having to almost become kind of a people person within that too. 'cause you're having conversations and you're adding education and all these things and the kind of being a coordinator, right?
It's not just a, uh, you know, kind of a straight shooter job. So it's, that part was really, really fun with New Year's Eve. And again, just another one of those, uh, examples of just a pinnacle of some of the best crew in the entire world, you know, on, on some of those shows. And especially in Times Square at New Year's Eve.
So very, very cool.
Andy Leviss: Right on. And um, I had another question about like one of the specific geeks you mentioned, and I'm trying to remember what it was. Um, oh, I, I think it was just 'cause I know we've, we've talked a bit and I know folks like love the practical stuff too. So like, um, we've talked a bit about, like, I've done some coordination tips and it was funny, I was actually gonna introduce you to this episode, is the guy who can tell everybody what I didn't explain well a few episodes ago what we did our kind of like off the cuff crash course in, in, in like basic RF coordination.
Um, I. But like I, I'm wondering, like we, so we, we talk like, I mean we didn't really talk about Coachella, but like that's like, there's multiple stages going on and I assume some media and stuff. So there's coordinating that. But like we said, it's still fairly straightforward to what people think of when they think of coordination.
And, and then on the other hand there's like something like Times Square where we've again got multiple stages, all the other shit in the air, in the environment and in ENG and all that stuff coming. And then it feels like, do you wanna give an idea for like, not even specifically about like dreamscape or anything like that, or like one venue of that.
Like maybe give folks a little look at like how like doing a convention coordination might differ from like doing a stage show or something like that. 'cause I feel like that's, that's something that folks come up with and particularly when they start looking at channel counts of that. If you've never done it, you get really like, oh my God, how did I get these many channels?
And like, the games you have to play to make a convention work, um, do you, you wanna like, dig into that a little bit for folks?
Cody Heimann: absolutely. Yeah. Uh, the convention center one was really, really cool because, you know, at the beginning you kind of feel like, well, this just isn't as fun or as cool as like concert stuff because, you know, it's convention and it's boring and it's, you know, talking heads or whatever. But when you get into those, uh, those get so much more complex because, um, not only do you have, you know, what we kind of refer to as quote unquote rights holders and you know, where you have to coordinate where things have to have priority on, but it's like every room and every single mic in there is.
Just as important as the last, and I don't mean that concert doesn't have that, but what I mean is like, you know, in the concert touring stuff or in the festival world, there's other inputs, right? There's, there's hardwired mics, there's other musicians working and singers and all that. You know, 99, I mean, shoot, yeah.
99% of the time. I mean, your only input on stage is one to five wireless mics in a dead silent room, right? So you hear everything and failure is just not an option, right? Because it's, it, the stakes are just really high with it. And that became very, a very interesting thing when you had to start getting into these channel counts where.
You know, we're talking about Dreamforce and some of these other where, you know, your, your channel counts are becoming, you know, to the point where you have a comma in it, right? So into the thousands and, you know, each venue is hundreds of channels and you know that crew of coordinators, uh, not only do you have to trust everyone, because a lot of those are intermingling with one another, and these ENG crews have to be working in every one of these venues.
So you have to coordinate those globally to go in and out of every venue. 'cause you never know where they're gonna be. You know, maybe a specific keynote speaker is gonna need to be in between places and they have their own equipment or a band, and it just gets really, really complicated really quick. So with those, the biggest part about them is just making sure that you're being extraordinarily precise in your information and your communication, because those are so easy to get lost in translation.
All these rooms are labeled similarly and all these names of people start running together and, you know, more than likely you've got 90% of the same hardware in all these rooms, and it definitely becomes more of a, a data server kind of job than, you know, running around and changing frequencies on stuff.
Um, and the other really cool thing is, uh, there's a concept called war gaming. And with corporate. You know, we spend, you know, sometimes an entire day, uh, coordinating with all these venues and all these people and all these vendors, um, to try to make sure that we are war gaming the entire property or the entire show appropriately so we can be successful for the day's rehearsals and, you know, all that stuff.
'cause every one of these keynote speakers is coming in, you know, they're either charging by the hour or they're having these, you know, monster price tags with 'em, and there's multiple of 'em a day. And it's just, uh, you know, it's, it's a lot more fast paced and it's a lot more complicated than people probably give 'em credit to with the corporate stuff.
Andy Leviss: Yeah, and it's like, and it just gets into, so like, even with a single venue, like when you're in a convention center or hotel, like, everything's kind of folding on to itself in terms of physical spaces. So like, you really have to, and, and maybe if you wanna, like, obviously it's getting like deep into the weeds for folks to have a good understanding of that.
But like, do you wanna give like a little bit of like a crash course for folks in like playing like the interactions games and like when you, when you can get away, because there's, I know folks are listening, they're like, well, even if I need like a hundred channels in one convention, like, how am I gonna, I can't get that many channels.
So like, there's lots of tricks we can play with it. And like, I've, I gave folks a little sneak peek of that on, you know, a few episodes ago, but I think I'd love to hear like your approach and, and explain, explain that and see if we can help some folks out who are starting to get into that sort of event.
Cody Heimann: Definitely. Yeah. No, this is, this is fun. Uh, so this is one of those scenarios where physical spacing is your friend and your enemy at the same time, right? Because when we look at the festival type stuff, we can maybe get by, because these stages are so far separated from one another. Or, you know, we're gonna have bands that can share time slots and things of that nature.
Well, when we're in the corporate space or when we're in a single venue that's being just completely packed from, you know, floor one to floor five, and every single breakout room from left to right, you basically just have an air wall in between, right? And, uh, you also have the detriment of, you know, maybe technicians that aren't completely RF savvy too, right?
So power is always an issue, right? If someone's, you know, shooting transmission at high power rather than low power, all of these things really start to cause kind of a snowball effect. And so when I'm getting into coordination, uh, for these really large scale shows, I have to absolutely prioritize spacing as much as absolutely possible.
Where, you know, we're looking at a northwest corner and a southeast corner of the building and looking at what kind of spacing opportunities I have between them, rather than this block of, you know, uh. Let's call it Gand Wireless is all in this one area. How am I gonna coordinate a hundred of these?
Because they just don't work
Andy Leviss: just to clarify for folks, we're actually talking physical spacing right now. We're not talking frequency spacing
Cody Heimann: Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. And so, uh, you know, having to look at that part of it is really a big deal. And that's where all this pre-production kind of comes in. You know, we spend way more time on the front end of things working with, you know, vendors and, and the show planners and the meeting planners and all that stuff about how to get gear into what places because physically.
You have to separate these and you have to get 'em into different areas of the building. And you have to look at where they're actually gonna locate. 'cause you know, if everyone had their way, they would just take, you know, wireless channel one and throw it in this room and wireless channel two here and three here.
And that would actually be an impossibility in some aspects, right? Because you just literally run outta spectrum. Um, so when you're looking at that, then the next part of it is actually channel spacing or how we're looking at intermodulation interaction and all that kind of stuff. And more than ever, I mean, with digital modulation, uh, we're.
Kind of getting a little bit spoiled. Uh, some of the rules help us out a lot more. Um, you know, the Intermod isn't as big of a deal as it was when we were coordinating BTR eight hundreds with Electrosonics and, you know, the, the big quarter watt, you know, stuff that was, you know, where it was all necessary and it was all the great products at the time, right?
And it was all these things that were necessary to make these shows happen. But man, you really just had to like, hone in on, on the intermod aspect rather than the actual main carrier aspect of it. Where now we can kind of just focus in on, okay, my carrier is here, I can space everything else around it and the Intermod stuff.
You know, and then just the tools of coordination software now have gone. So, I mean, in the last two years, especially the tools we have to us for coordination software make things even better now, right? We can share with people and we can calculate a little bit more, uh, you know, loose or tight, you know, depending on what you need to do.
Or you can, you know, intermod calculate just specific transmitters at this point now where it used to just have to be big zones of stuff. So, um, so many more tools to our disposal for sure.
Andy Leviss: Yeah, it's, it's, it's weird 'cause like on the, on the front of like what frequencies and channels are available to us. It's not the best time to be doing this, but in terms of the technology, it's a better and better time to be doing this. Um,
Cody Heimann: And you know, to one other point, there no show that I have done multiple years in a row has ever gotten smaller, right? Ever. So the channel counts. You know, the first year, you know, you're doing some of these monster shows and you're like, oh my god, like 1300 channels, how are we gonna do this? Right?
And next year you're like, man, hopefully it's not gonna hit that. And you're like, ah, shit, we're 1500 channels this year now, right? So, um, or there's more bands in this one area, you know, or the exhibit floor crammed in 40 more booths, right? Or whatever the situation is. So, and then the expectation too is that wireless now has to work in more places, right?
So not only are channel counts getting bigger, but the amount of area needing to be covered is getting, you know, almost just more insane, right? Like, oh, we gotta have, you know, coverage in the bathroom and in the trailer and the broadcast truck
Andy Leviss: hey, we're gonna, that singer's gonna enter from the back of the house and we're gonna do a, a handheld wireless camera shot all the way through the back dressing room hallway and,
Cody Heimann: Yep, exactly right. And it's like, okay, cool.
That's gonna be 90 seconds, uh, worth of the entire show and we're gonna change the entire infrastructure and budget to facilitate that. Right?
Andy Leviss: Yep. That, that, that was the day I was glad to be on comms and, and could just glance over and see Cameron pulling his hair out.
Cody Heimann: Yep. Talking about one of the best out there for sure. Uh, if there's someone that can do that. Yep.
Andy Leviss: yeah, that's, uh, we're talking about, uh, uh, our good friend Cameron Stuckey, who is, is yeah, one of the top of the RF game. And I remember him when he was in high school, which is
Cody Heimann: That's awesome.
Andy Leviss: I was, we used to, I still, I gotta try and get Cameron on the show too, but we used to both volunteer on Broadway Bears, uh, here in New York, like the big, uh, Broadway Cares equity fights, AIDS benefit. And I remember like, this dude's pretty smart, like, what's his deal? Like, wonder like, where's he working?
And then come to find out he's in school. I'm like, oh, like, what's your major? He is like, no, no high school. And I'm like, I I need a minute.
Cody Heimann: I am so old.
Andy Leviss: Yeah. Um, yeah. And actually I'm, I, my little bit of claim to fame is that I was the one who hooked him up with PWS for the, the like work study he did there in college, which is how he ended up working for PWS. So
Cody Heimann: And now just, you know, again, one of the best Absolutely. Out there for sure. So,
Andy Leviss: Yeah. Like, and I can only take credit for making the intro. He was already who he was and like knew what he wanted to do and he was like, Hey, you work for Mass, do you know anybody there?
And it was like right day, right time for me to like reach out to Jimmy over there and be like, Hey, I've got this like, student who's looking for like a work placement somewhere and really wants to work with you. And he was like, send him my way. I'll take him tomorrow.
Cody Heimann: That's so cool,
Andy Leviss: And yeah, so it's, I I, I get to take the teeniest little bit of credit for helping me make that happen,
Cody Heimann: Very
Andy Leviss: but um, yeah.
No, Cameron's a good dude. Um, uh, but yeah, so we were talking, yeah, I mean like doing conventions, like that's like, those are the only gigs I end up with. Like, I've got printouts of like each floor of the venue, tape, wood bottle wall in order. And you're sitting here, it's like you're looking like the meme of the guy with the red strings connecting all the different dots and like, okay, well this room and that room, they're far enough apart.
Okay. I think we can put, we can. Not really worry about them in Yeah, it's, and then you get, and then you get halfway in and realize that, that the floor plan of like one of the middle floors was rotated 180 on, you know, like encore's website and you're like, yeah. And you just want to cry. I'm looking at you.
Uh, Hilton Tower
Cody Heimann: Right. Whoops. Uh, no, for sure. I mean, you know, 'cause that's the other thing about it too is you know, you all of a sudden go, oh, well we're gonna flip this room halfway through the convention, or this room's gonna combine to four rooms. Or the gear needs to, you know, we gotta add one day. You know, max set for this room is 12 channels, but for the rest of the days it's only three or four.
And you know, you don't really get a lot of that. Now, don't get me wrong, festival coordination sucks too. Right? So I'm not saying any of that other stuff is not easy or is easy, right? Because it definitely is not. Um, but you know, the thing with that is like, you know, you get a band set up or you get a time slot, and for the most part, I mean, you're gonna be within that realm, right?
And, and just getting the actual coordination to happen is tough. And then dealing with spectrum stuff, but you know, so much with corporate, it's like. It's never over until it's over. I, I remember plenty of shows being on the last day of the gig and it's like, oh, we're gonna add 22 wireless down here.
We're gonna, you know, the exhibit floor is turning into a concert stage tonight. And it was like, oh, I, I wish I would've known about
Andy Leviss: And also there's three more breakouts going into, into those three rooms over there, and yeah. Yep.
Cody Heimann: yep. So
Andy Leviss: love, surprises.
Cody Heimann: it, it, it is man, it's full of surprises and channel counts and all that stuff, but it was, it was really fun. I mean, that ended up being the majority of my work for, you know, the last probably 10 years. You know, the majority of it was corporate. I did a ton of music stuff, but I just, I kind of always felt myself wanting to go back and still do these corporate shows.
'cause I just really felt like that was my, where I kind of shined with a lot of this. 'cause I was just, you know, I liked getting all the data transposed from, you know, here's a PDF and I'm not explaining any of it to like, here's everything and here's what the client expects. And I, I always really enjoyed that part.
Andy Leviss: so, so I take it as a kid, you like puzzles.
Cody Heimann: Yeah. Yep. Puzzles and just, it's, uh, you know, uh, I would argue that it's minor. Uh, my wife would argue that it's major, uh, versions of OCD, right? Like my books are from tallest to shortest, and all the covers are out. The cereal boxes don't have the nutrition facts on the outside. It's just ridiculous. So, yeah, a bit of OCD on my end of things, but
Andy Leviss: That's, those things go around in like, in like this particular corner of the industry for sure. Um, yeah. I mean I know that's, that's the thing I always like explain to folks. I'm like, yes. Like I, I mix a lot. I still, I love mixing. Like, but there's a certain thing for being able to like, just show up at a gig.
Whether it's like RF order ordering, comm programming is kind of the same thing of the, like I've got a bunch of things that like, I know what everybody needs. I know what they're expecting. Um, I can just beat my head against the puzzle for a little while, get all the pieces to fall into place. If I'm doing it really well, I can even like anticipate the need before they get it and they can come up and ask for something.
I'm like, here's your list, here's your compact. Like it's, there's something, it's, it would be wrong to say it's no pressure or low pressure 'cause it's a very high, both of those are very high pressure positions, but it's a different kind of pressure than like mixing is.
Cody Heimann: Yeah. Well, and I feel like when you get into the flow of that too, right? Like, and I don't mean anything negative by this, if anyone anticipates this or takes this in the wrong context, but you know, with, with mixing it's definitely more of an artistic format, right? And it's, I feel like you get to paint this incredible picture and you get to do what you want with it.
And it's, everyone's just incredible interpretation of what they feel like it should sound like. Where, you know, comms and RF coordination or RF teching is, yeah, there's an art form to it and, you know, things change a little bit. But for the most part, I mean, I, I really always refer to it as just kind of a data management job, right?
And you're, you know, giving people what they need and sending them along their way, right? And that's kind of the part of it that I really enjoyed. Um, but yeah, so there is definitely kind of that spectrum between the two that, you know, doesn't really parallel so.
Andy Leviss: Yeah. Um, see again, I have like another question I was gonna go with and, and then I feel like we made the point I was gonna make so.
Cody Heimann: I, I just get long-winded, so
Andy Leviss: No, it's all, it's have you listened to the show? But that's all I do. That's my hardest thing is not being long-winded so that I can actually let the guests talk. Um, uh, so yeah, I mean, I guess that's like one of the questions people always ask when like, I'm trying to like, walk somebody through how to coordinator stuff.
And we touched a little bit on is like, actually, you know what, I'm gonna rewind that question and phrase it a different way or at least come back to it, is you had mentioned earlier how like with digital, you know, wireless and, and all that, how intermod has become like much less of a con, not, not a concern, but much less a concern.
And is there with, without going like too deep into the, like physics and math of it, is there like a quick, like capsule you could give for folks on, on why that's the case and like what, what the differences are in digital that allow that to happen?
Cody Heimann: Yeah, I mean, uh, this gets, this gets down into a, a pretty intense little rabbit hole where we could, we could spend a whole show on this. And we did a handful of these, uh, on practical show techs, uh, you know, webinar series. Uh, kind of get really in depth on this. So, uh, if anyone wants to dive into this further, um, you know, there, there's a lot of those out there from, uh, 2020 and, and.
Going forward that, uh, we did on those. But really the big thing here is we're modulating so much differently, right? With analog, uh, if you started looking into, um, you know, on a spectrum analyzer, you could actually see that in that carrier pumping and breathing, whether, you know, whatever the, the modulation aspect of it was that you were using.
And with digital, you know, you are basically packing ones and zeros into this perfect little square shaped carrier, right? And it doesn't have the variabilities of it. And because it's ones and zeros and because it's able to decode it a lot differently or you know, just predominantly digitally, uh, you don't have that intermod potential there that's, that's coming out from it, right?
And you're also dealing with significantly less power, uh, for the most part too. Uh, you know, where you all remember again, the days of I. You know, shooting a quarter watt out of our transmitters or just going high power everywhere and using these, you know, combiners that were non-linear for the most part.
And um, you know, just kind of creating garbage with all the stuff that was coming in and out of it. And now it's just a lot more kind of finessed, if you will, uh, with that carrier. And because we're able to do it, you know, uh, with the power levels that we are, that definitely helps significantly too.
Andy Leviss: Right on. And, and again, we were saying like, it's not like you're not gonna like totally ignore and like turn inner mod off entirely when doing a
Cody Heimann: listen to your coordinators still for sure.
Andy Leviss: Yep.
Cody Heimann: Definitely Intermod. Calculate, definitely use the software. Uh, it's
Andy Leviss: because I've, I've definitely heard that myth a few times. Like, I don't have to worry about it at all. I can just worry about direct hits.
And it's like, well, not exactly.
Cody Heimann: Yeah, and you can still definitely see it. I mean, you know, if you take, you know, a handful of transmitters and just stack 'em on, I mean, we still do, you know, tins, right? We still put our transmitters inside of tins to avoid that when they're all stacked closely together. Um, you know, but just the idea that it's so much less to where, uh, basically like, you know, the whole concept we were talking about with the convention center thing, where, you know, through the air walls, you're not gonna see it as much as you were beforehand, right?
Because the intermods are lower and they're, you know, a, a lot lower in the noise floor. So the, the air wall is gonna kind of protect that next room a little bit better than it would've if you were having this, you know, full scale intermod, you know, third harmonic intermod from your main carrier blasted through that wall, you know, prior.
So.
Andy Leviss: Yeah, well, like the same thing goes, like we were talking about Times Square earlier, like when you're, when like Eric or somebody else's, or Eric, two out of the three coordinators on Broadway right now are named Eric. So when Eric or, um, you know, our coordinator like Broadway shows, like there you have both that benefit of like just not having to worry about it as far when you have like neighboring theaters.
And then also you do have like ancient New York construction for better and worse. Well act as an attenuator a bit. So like, it's like, well, yeah, you've got like, you know, 50 something theaters crammed into like a 10 block radius. Like you're not necessarily coordinating intermod between every single one.
Like you can, you mostly just have to worry about direct hits between neighboring theaters. Like, unless, unless you know, the construction of a particular like pair of theaters is particularly problematic. So
Cody Heimann: Yeah. I mean, there's been plenty of buildings that I've done where, you know, we've been down on the first floor and all of a sudden you get a call that, you know, they're, they're getting some sort of interference up on the fifth floor and you're like, there's no way. Right? And you look on your spectrum analyzer and it actually is some sort of intermod or something that has been created from, you know, multiple transmitters being just stacked on top of one another.
And, you know, that power level of that intermod just increasing exponentially, right? So, uh, it still is definitely very probable and you can still definitely run into problems with it. And I think everyone listening to the podcast has unfortunately fallen suspect too, intermod, uh, causing challenges on their show.
So.
Andy Leviss: Yep. And I mean, like, I wish I had a better like way to explain for folks like when to, like, other than just saying, just start basically as strict as you can on a coordination, and then when that stops working for you, loosen up. But like, I, I, I think you would probably agree that like, I can't give you a guide for like when to loosen up.
It's just one of those like, you just gotta kind of try and know, and to a certain extent, experience will teach you. But like that example you just gave like. Even with like tons of experience, you could look at a situation and be like, oh, this won't be a problem. And then when you fire it up you're like, well, nope, nope.
It's a problem
Cody Heimann: Yep. Yeah. And that's the whole, you know, the concept of the war game is to find a lot of those challenges. Um, you know, so, because yeah, even, even the software is much better and, and the calculations are good. It still doesn't give you everything, right. You still have to actually apply. You know, physical fundamentals of looking on your spectrum analyzer when everyone's fired up and maybe moving the antennas around because it's causing, you know, a challenge and, you know, your transmit antenna is facing the wrong way and you're, you're getting enough multi-path that's causing an inter modder, whatever the situation is.
You know, you, you still definitely have to verify all this stuff and, uh, it yeah, is more important than ever to, to start strict too, because. You know, with the channel counts being so high, you're gonna want that as tight as you can be to make sure that everything is as clean as possible. You know, we, we talk all the time about pun intended signal to noise, where, you know, if you're ruining your noise floor with, you know, a ton of intermod stuff or short space and carriers, you, you're gonna screw yourself later on, right?
And you only start doing that stuff when you've run outta space. So if you're, you know, having a really great coordination or you're getting into a really clean coordination early on, it's definitely gonna help you, you know, down the road when you get deeper into your coordination. Um, and the other really big misnomer is that, you know, I think a lot of people go, oh, you know, if I didn't get it right the first time, I don't know how to coordinate.
You know, I, I can't tell you how many times that if I have a. My coordination at Dreamforce, right from my portion of it. I, I coordinate that every day. Tell the show when I know the numbers right. Because if I do it this way, I might fit five more channels in on this floor. If I did it this way, I was able to fit 20 extra on this floor.
And that, you know, that's a big part of it, right? Is just running the numbers different ways and approaching how you're calculating everything in different, you know, aspects. Uh, so I definitely wanna encourage people to, to coordinate and recoordinate and recoordinate. 'cause you're, you're gonna be very surprised about, you know, the results that you get from every time you do it.
Andy Leviss: Yeah. So that actually kind of leads into the next like, strategical question I was gonna ask you, which is like, when you've got an event where like, you know, there's gonna be like ENG, um, which, uh, uh, news, news folks media for, for those who don't know the abbreviation, um, folks coming in later, but you don't know what they're gonna have.
Like how do you, how do you, when you're doing a show like that, strategize around that and making sure you're leaving space to be able to accommodate that or not? Or, or are you just when they get in trying to fit it and then recoordinate around it if you have to?
Cody Heimann: Yeah, that's a great question, and it's a little bit of both. Um, you know, in every coordination that I do, uh, and th this is a whole nother rabbit hole that I could do a whole nother podcast on, is, uh, spare frequencies and,
Andy Leviss: It was literally gonna be my next question.
Cody Heimann: yep. Uh, but that plays into this, right? So, you know, if everyone had their way right, you know, on a lot of these corporate shows, you know, you do a room that has 12 channels in it, they want 12 spares, right?
You're always gonna get the request for, you know, do I get spares? How, when, when do I get my spare frequencies? And. Generally, as a rule of thumb, I don't hand out any spare frequencies because what I have seen in, you know, the last decade of doing this is the second you hand out spare frequencies, the second they start using them using different frequencies, right?
Something was bad or you know, and it's not necessarily, again, uh, like I don't blame the tech necessarily for that, but if they don't have the spare, it causes them to have to try to figure out what the challenge is, right? Oh, my antenna wasn't plugged in all the way or screwed on the transmitter all the way, or the frequency was 20 5K off, or whatever the situation is, right?
We run into so many situations
Andy Leviss: No, man, it's just bad.
Cody Heimann: it, it's bad, right? Yep. I got hits. It's bad. I gotta go right? We need a new one. And um, so, uh, the reason that plays into this though, uh, to answer your question now is I do calculate, I. Uh, a good handful of spares or spares in each band. Um, so that way when we do get that surprise ENG crew, or we do get that surprise extra breakout room or whatever, I at least know I've got some breathing room to add someone in.
Um, and you know, a little bit of, uh, not best practice here, but you know, I'll just keep a general. Spacing requirement for any of these, because you don't know if they're coming in with, you know, a rad, uh, a radcom, you know, comm system, or they're coming in with electro system or a Sure system or whatever it is, right?
And all those have different parameters. So I'm really just gonna make sure that I've got enough space to fit that carrier in, uh, in an area that's not gonna be a detriment to either, you know, someone else surrounding them or themselves if they have multiple things. Um, so I'm always trying to leave those gaps.
Uh, and then, you know, we're always looking at areas too where, uh, if I do have spares set aside for another room, uh, because they don't know about those spares, if I need to start adding extra channel counts, I can start using some of those spares too. Right? Um, but I'm always happy to, to offer spares, uh, if someone asks me for one.
But I'm always going to, I. Go down or ask them questions first. Right? And yeah. And another thing too, with like the G crew is. You know, the funny thing about, you mentioned it earlier, where just the channel counts are always getting higher and higher, and the expectation's getting bigger is, like most of the NG crews, I'll go up and I'll go, Hey, do you need to be wireless?
Or can you, you know, how, how long's your spot that you're gonna do? Or where you doing this hit from? And honestly, more times than not, they're like, oh yeah, I can just throw on a cable and, and we can just do this hit real quick and walk out. Right? And like, if I would've given everyone the opportunity to have extra frequencies for all those ENG hits on whatever show I'm doing, I would've just burned 12 channels for the whole show, right?
Instead of just having a great conversation with them and just asking, Hey, do you know, are you cool going wired? If not, I'm absolutely happy to start working with you on a frequency. Um. Then it comes into, uh, as we mentioned earlier, yet again about rights holders and how you pre-coated, right? Like we had sent out pre requests.
Um, you know, there's people that were actually in line, uh, if you show up day of right? I can't necessarily guarantee anything because we're trying to protect the show and yourself. So you always just gotta kind of work with it. But the ENG crews are always a fun one. Um, and, you know, always also trying to help just them, you know, learn about wireless too.
It's always fascinating the amount of stuff about wireless we can just have a conversation about with those folks too. So I always appreciate that part.
Andy Leviss: That's a huge thing you just said that I want to flag that I, I feel like I've done this subconsciously, but never thought to like phrase it that way is that it's easy for when they come in and you're, we'll say, arguing through fre, you're, you're discussing through frequencies for it to feel adversarial and, and it's, and like communicating to them that it's not just, it's not that I'm just trying to keep you from messing anything else up.
I'm trying, trying to keep everything else from messing you up.
Cody Heimann: Yeah. I mean, they don't want their live hit to go poorly, right? And if I cannot give you a frequency or something that's available is going to affect you, right? Like it doesn't work for either of us, right? Like your hit's not gonna go well, the room next to you is gonna fail like so
Andy Leviss: it's get it, get it back to our parenting talk of before. It's it, this is gonna hurt me as much as it's gonna hurt you.
Cody Heimann: Yeah. Trust me, I don't wanna tell you No, but I have to tell you no right now. Um, and yeah, and, and that was kind of, you know, when you're getting into coordinating and when you're getting into these larger scale stuff, it's, you know, that's always a hard one to try to kind of learn, because for a while I felt like, oh man, I'm failing because I don't have a spot for this person.
Right? And then when you start looking into the idea that like, well, you, you're really actually supporting this person almost indirectly, um, by either having a conversation or figuring out a b plan if it doesn't go well, or just letting them know that the situation that they walked into, right? So, um, yeah, that it goes a really long way.
And, and, you know, the majority of the conversations are extraordinarily cordial and everyone's happy because again, we're just all there to have fun and do the best show possible. Be it, you know, someone, a news crew coming in for a 32nd hit, or you know, the keynote speaker that's gonna be on for an hour.
Everyone's there for the same thing.
Andy Leviss: Yep, yep. But at the end of the day, all of our job is to make this thing happen.
Cody Heimann: Totally. Yep. And so, uh, yep. But, and we do what we can, you know, and sometimes we bend the rules too, right? I've definitely put some frequencies in places that, you know, uh, I've been a little worried about, uh, just outta necessity and time, right? Like, oh, we gotta have this right now, and, you know, whatever.
And, but the longer you do it, and, and the more you understand, you know, how your coordination is built too, that you can make pretty good, educated decisions about where to put some of those, oh shit frequencies.
Andy Leviss: Both with like, both with the, the compromises you can make and the, the educated and calculated gambles you can make on your own stuff. And also the, the places you're not really supposed to put things, but that you can get away with. Putting the stuff we're not gonna say more explicitly, so we don't get into trouble.
Cody Heimann: I don't know what you're talking about,
Andy Leviss: I, I, that's, um, I've, we've, we've got a friend who, who, uh, who, who actually one of the folks we've mentioned in passing already today, who, who on, on, I forget whether it's on, on the signal to noise discord, or the sound based discord is mentioned a bunch of times. He is like, there's, there's no guys with blue FCC windbreakers knocking down doors is like, there's, there's if sometimes you can get away with a little bit if you need to, you just gotta know what you're getting away with and know when to
Cody Heimann: Yeah. And you know, a lot of that, um, is pretty interesting too because there's a lot of, uh, and dare I use a buzzword like this, but misinformation on, you know, where we can put things in the spectrum, right? I have conversations with people all the time that are, you know, they go, oh, if it's not, you know, core UHF, which we refer to as, you know, 470 megahertz to 616 is kind of our, what we've known as core UHF anyway, uh, you know, where if it's outside of that range, it's just like, oh my God, it's illegal.
Like we can't do that. I don't know. How are you gonna do that? You know? And so there's a lot of things that are interesting in the education sector with all the rules that are changing with the FCC and where you can put things and, and what you can legally get by with too, if you have a part 74 versus a part 15 and all these things.
Andy Leviss: at, at this power level versus that power level. And, and
Cody Heimann: Yep.
Andy Leviss: And then, and there is that like, you know, like technically you need, you need a part 74 to be able to like go if, like, if you've got a TV channel that doesn't make it inside into a certain distance away, you can go on top of that. If you've got a part 74, like we said, nobody's knocking down your door to likely check if you have a part 74 if you're not causing issues.
But. Technically speaking, you need to, you should as a part 74 holder, I'm gonna tell you. You should.
Cody Heimann: yep, yep, yep.
Andy Leviss: yeah, there's lots of, and also, I mean, I'll just say the thing that, like that, um, my friend and neighbor Henry, like literally he lives 30 seconds walk that way. Henry Cone, um, drilled in is, uh, is if, if you do qualify for a part 74, go ahead and get it.
Even if you don't think you're gonna, it's dirt cheap enough. And the more of us have those licenses, the bigger a voice we have as all this FCC stuff is changing. And as we're battling for every bit of bandwidth we can get, like, one of the reasons we've lost some of the bandwidth we lost just 'cause they looked at, they're like, well there's like only like, you know, like 10 people that have like it.
That doesn't matter. They'll be fine. It's because a lot of us don't bother. There's, I mean, there's lots of, there's a couple good guides online. If you want to like do an application yourself, there's, I think PWS and a few other places will do it for you as a service for like a really reasonable cost.
And if you're doing any significant amount of coordination and can qualify for it, it's like highly recommend.
Cody Heimann: Yeah. And you know that that is one of those things that I, I do think is, you know, whether you are a, a backline tech or a, a front of house tech or whatever, like if you are around wireless. Talk to these folks that do part 74 and figure out if you're eligible. Because if you are, you absolutely get it.
Everyone is gonna benefit from it. All of our jobs are gonna be better because of it. Um, you have access to more stuff because of it. And then, yeah, just that exposure to the FCC and to the, you know, not only the governing bodies, but to the people that are actually in the companies and corporations that are buying the spectrum.
Right? It helps everyone make these decisions on how we can protect the space that we're in. Um, and there's a couple really amazing initiatives too out there of alliances that are being started with manufacturers now to help protect the spectrum. And, uh, just more than ever, that part is becoming the most important thing that we can do.
Um, 'cause you know, the broken record in me and, uh, you know, the, the channel counts are not getting smaller. The expectations are getting bigger. I. Uh, and, and we need that spectrum. Uh, I just had the, the pleasure of doing a, a panel, uh, at a ES Nashville with Jason Glass and Ryan Stotz. And, uh, we covered the topic of large scale coordination.
And it was really, really fun because, you know, I got to kind of talk to a group of, it was a. Really cool mix of, of students, uh, all the way up to people that are, you know, looking at, you know, retiring outta their touring careers. And the amount of questions that we had just in the sector of FCC and part 74, part 15 was just overwhelming.
Uh, and so that was really, really cool to just talk to these folks and, you know, again, just incredible RF geniuses like our, uh, Jason Glass and Ryan Stotts to be there to back all this up and, you know, to talk about our experiences with these licenses and how we've had success on our shows because of it, uh, was just really cool to see, you know, everyone in the audience, uh, really think more about part 74 than I think they ever have before.
So definitely a PSA go get it. Uh, yep.
Andy Leviss: Um, I'm trying to, there was a question I wanna ask, but I feel like it gets a little too much into a. Okay. No, sorry, I'm just trying to think of how to phrase this in a non-manufacturer specific example. 'cause the, the initial way I was gonna phrase it was a competitor that I don't want to necessarily ask you about specifically.
Um, but, so talking about the parts 74, 'cause this just came up on the Discord recently, and I know it's a thing people have a bit of confusion about. Is there, is there a quick summary you can give for folks on like the, the stuff up in the nine hundreds and, and when that is or isn't legal and what you need to do to use those?
Like in, in short would be the X 55, which is the way I was trying to not
Cody Heimann: No, totally.
Andy Leviss: that's the, that's for, for the, for the average listener, that's where they're gonna be most familiar with it. Um, and, and it seems there's a lot of confusion and, and fear about that and, and what's involved to use those.
Cody Heimann: Definitely. Yeah. And, uh, you know, X 55, um, for those listening is, is 940 megahertz to 960 megahertz. Actually, technically 9 41 to nine 60. Um, but, uh, what's happening there is there's these things called STLs or, uh, studio transmitter links, uh, that exist within 900, uh, or the STL range. And so the best practice with that, and, and the way that this is supposed to happen is you're actually supposed to coordinate, um, with the SPE in that market to avoid those STL links, right?
Andy Leviss: Society for Broadcast
Cody Heimann: Correct. Yep. Yep. And they have, uh, coordinators that are, you know, in each market, in each city that, you know, kind of have jurisdiction and understand where these are working and what these, uh, you know, transmitter links are doing. Um, so that has definitely been, um, you know, as, as you kind of set a big question into what's happening with this stuff and, and why, because that, you know, on the Spectrum analyzer looks like this utopia of spectrum, right?
That you've just got full blown access to, um, when, you know, really that is technically a part 74 portion of the spectrum as well. Um, so, you know, with the STL links and, and with the license. And proper coordination. I mean, that is a wonderful, wonderful place to have access to and to have the equipment that can access that part of the spectrum is extraordinarily beneficial.
Um, but yeah, just another reason to, you know, have that part 74 to get yourself supported for that area of the spectrum. For sure. 'cause again, you know, to to that point, the misnomer of four 70 to six 16 is the only thing I'm allowed to access. Right. And everything else is illegal. Well, you know, in some aspects it is, but in some aspects you do have more access than you think you do.
Right. You just, that research really comes into play with some of these slivers, you know, and I mean, there's some of these areas that are as literally little small as two megahertz wide, right? But, you know, with, with the right, uh, with the right knowledge and the right applications and all that stuff, you can have access to some of this that makes these really, really big shows, uh, successful.
Andy Leviss: Right on. Well, like, I mean, we've covered a bunch of topics there and I feel like this is probably a solid moment to pivot into the other side of your life and, and what you're doing for work now. Um, and we have hit nearly an hour, so I'm gonna wrap this up for folks listening at home, and then we're gonna come back next week and we'll kind of dig into some of the cool, some of the stuff, uh, with Cody's work at sound devices and talk about some of the cool, new things they're having.
Cody Heimann: Yeah. Very excited about it.
Andy Leviss: So, until next time, thanks to our awesome sponsors, Allen & Heath and RCF, and...that's the pod!
Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green
