293. Freelance Mixer Brian Maddox

Friend of the podcast and returning guest Brian Maddox joins Sean and Andy in Episode 293 to dig into the nuts and bolts of how to build a successful freelance career in live events. This episode is sponsored by Allen & Heath and RCF.

Brian brings the unique perspective of not only being one of the most in-demand freelance mixers in the corporate event market, but having built a new career after pivoting from a staff job at three different times in his life. This conversation got so in depth with great advice from Brian that it couldn’t fit in one episode, so be sure to tune in next episode for part two!

Episode Links:
STN Episode 151 With Brian Maddox (Next Generation Audio Professionals)
STN Episode 243 With Brian Maddox (Mixing Corporate Events, Part 1)
STN Episode 244 With Brian Maddox (Mixing Corporate Events, Part 2)
STN Episode 275 With Brian Maddox (Mixing For The 2024 Paris Olympics)
Brian Maddox Articles On ProSoundWeb
Episode 293 Transcript

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Episode 293 Transcript

Transcript

Episode 293 - Brian Maddox on Freelancing, part 1

Note: This is an automatically generated transcript, so there might be mistakes--if you have any notes or feedback on it, please send them to us at signal2noise@prosoundweb.com so we can improve the transcripts for those who use them!

Voiceover: You’re listening to Signal to Noise, part of the ProSoundWeb podcast network, proudly brought to you this week by the following sponsors:

Allen & Heath, whose new dLive RackUltra FX upgrade levels up your console with 8 next-generation FX racks – putting powerful tools like vocal tuning, harmonizing, and amp simulation right at your fingertips. Learn more at allen-heath.com

RCF and TT+ AUDIO.... Delivering premium audio solutions designed for tour sound and music professionals for over 75 years. Hear TT+ AUDIO's GTX 10 and GTX 12 line passive line array and the GTS 29 dual 19" passive subwoofer.... all powered by RCF's XPS 16k amplifier, live in the arena at Winter NAMM 2025. Many other RCF products will be demo'd in Hall A in room #17108. Visit RCF at RCF-USA.com for the latest news and product information.

Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green

[00:00:53] Andy Leviss: Heyyyy, welcome back to another episode of Signal to Noise. I'm your host, Andy Leviss, and with me slowly fading in from a blurry vision on his camera that none of you can see the, you know, I had one and then I made that joke and just ADHD right off of the blank to my blank joke. The, the, and now my, now my brain is just like the Billy to my blanks.

But like the percentage of people who will get that reference is so tiny to a certain age and period of time that people are looking at me like, fuck is he talking about?

[00:01:28] Sean Walker: Oh my gosh. That's hysterical.

[00:01:29] Andy Leviss: Yeah. Tai-Bo... Anybody?

[00:01:32] Brian Maddox: Yeah.

[00:01:32] Andy Leviss: Okay, there we go. The, the ladies and gentlemen. The No Ladies and gentlemen, the, the Drops to my Jupiter Sean Walker

[00:01:40] Sean Walker: Oh my gosh.

[00:01:40] Andy Leviss: train album.

[00:01:41] Brian Maddox: Okay. That one, that one.

[00:01:42] Sean Walker: wa Dad jokes.

[00:01:45] Andy Leviss: Yep, yep. I mean that's the whole, that's the whole ladies and gentlemen, the muscle to my relaxer, Mr. Sean Walk. Um, no, but seriously, welcome to a

[00:01:59] Sean Walker: The Jack to my Coke.

[00:02:00] Andy Leviss: yeah, yeah. There we go. Um, I, I can see, but now that we said all these, I can't use any of these again in another episode, so there we are. Um, but no, we are, we are back this week kind of spinning off a mix of what Sean and I talked about last episode with, uh, like at the end of like marketing yourself as a freelancer and with a sort of semi recurring conversation that comes up on the discord.

Uh, we've brought back as, as you may have heard, a little snippet of him, uh, uh, in, in that, uh, ham-handed intro of ours. Uh, recurring guest in front of the podcast, Mr. Brian Maddox is with us.

[00:02:38] Sean Walker: Well, we just thought it was time to like bring somebody that knew what they were doing.

[00:02:41] Brian Maddox: Yeah, well, or some or, or somebody that you've already really had on way, way too many times. But, um, but

[00:02:49] Andy Leviss: Yeah, but we're not talking about me or Sean right now.

[00:02:52] Brian Maddox: Well, yeah. Okay. And I also, um, I, I also, uh, the, the, the mister in front of the Brian Maddox feels very, very, um, well deserved and formal in the way that I would like it to be from now on.

[00:03:06] Andy Leviss: understood. I've ma I've made a

[00:03:07] Sean Walker: Sir, Mr.

[00:03:08] Brian Maddox: yeah, sir. Mr. Sir. Mr. Sir,

[00:03:10] Andy Leviss: I, we'll put it into the show graphic.

[00:03:12] Brian Maddox: Please.

[00:03:14] Andy Leviss: Uh, I'm, I mean, now that we're going like old school enough and having Brian back, should we like start off with a, what's the coolest thing in arm's Reach?

[00:03:22] Brian Maddox: Oh yeah, we could do that. Um, oh man. Coolest things in, coolest thing in arm's reach. This is, um, okay, uh, I got a couple, um, things, but this one's gonna be a, this is gonna be a awe, and it's, it's a visual, so, um, it's gonna kind of fail, but, um, I'm holding up for people who can see it, a tiny guitar pick, tiny guitar pick that you can't see.

But on one pic, on one side, it's a picture of me and my beloved wife kissing. And on the other side it says, love never fails. And I have a whole pack of these beautiful little wifey guitar picks that I use to play. And that is actually was within arms reach. I'm sorry, but that's cooler than any of your fricking electronic gizmos.

[00:04:12] Andy Leviss: totally.

[00:04:13] Sean Walker: percent.

[00:04:13] Andy Leviss: and you know what, I bet she's glad you picked her.

[00:04:16] Brian Maddox: Ha ha. See, see, see, see, it's you, it's you. You didn't need proof. You don't have to keep proving that you're a dad by holding the child and then giving constant dad

[00:04:29] Andy Leviss: Well, I was gonna say that was, that was like my, I mean, the most obvious coolest thing in Arm's Reach is I have a baby strapped to me right now

[00:04:37] Sean Walker: Nice

[00:04:37] Brian Maddox: I.

[00:04:38] Andy Leviss: who is being incredibly well behaved and is his silent co-hosting.

[00:04:41] Sean Walker: handsome little

[00:04:42] Andy Leviss: Um, yeah. Although, I guess if I was gonna pick an audio ish thing, I've got this little FIO file.

It's FIIO is the brand. I don't know how to, if it's FIO or fio, but they make little, like all sorts of like DAXs and USB things and it's just a little USBC to headphone, but it's a little burier than most of them. And it's like 30, 40 bucks on, on Amazon if Amazon's your thing. And it's, I wanted something that would drive.

Headphones and in yours better than just like the little cheesy apple dongle. And like, this thing's got a shocking amount of power for a tiny USB port power thing that works off a phone. I gotta try it with my seven seventies 'cause those are the bears take some juice. And I haven't tried it with that yet.

But, you know, the DMA sixes, they work great with, um, which I've had like, I've had at least one dongle. I tried it on, um, actually at Nam that was like, that's strain it a little bit, which is, you know, it's the, a tiny $20 dongle off a phone. Like, I, I will, will not blame anything but the dongle for that. But I was like, if I'm gonna buy something, I'm gonna buy something nice and juicy.

So that's the other silly toy in my, in, in arm's reach. What about you, Sean?

[00:05:55] Sean Walker: I think the coolest thing I've got with Arms Reach is a plaque for our donating to charity last year, which we thought was rad. So we, you know, donated to a, a charity that we liked and, uh, thought we'd do some good for the world

[00:06:09] Brian Maddox: Uh, much, much, much coolness. Um, all around then, everyone we had, we had, um, we had romantic and we had charity and we had dorky electronics. I don't see how you can go wrong with

[00:06:22] Andy Leviss: a

[00:06:23] Brian Maddox: with the strife and a, and a baby. And a baby like the, the quada of things.

[00:06:30] Sean Walker: Totally, dude. Totally.

[00:06:35] Andy Leviss: Um, yeah, so, but what we were getting onto the topic, um, what we were talking about, uh, bringing Brian on for is, is more of that like talking about how the, the how to of freelancing and the why of building a career and as Brian was, was half joking earlier of, again, not even joking, earlier leading into the episode.

He is through various passive of life, basically built a freelance career on three separate occasions. So I figured he may not be an expert broadly, but in terms of depth and just having done it so many times, he seemed like the guy to call. So I. I dunno. Brian, do you wanna kind of like riff to beginning?

I know it's, like I said, it's a thing. We've talked in Discord about a lot and I figured bringing it out to the wider folks of the episode would be handy to a lot of folks both who are trying to build a freelance career at the start of their career or maybe have left a steady gig and are working on that.

So what, what would you, why don't you start us off and then we'll kinda, we'll kinda go from there.

[00:07:32] Brian Maddox: Kind of riff from there. Sure. I, um, yeah, it's interesting, um, just because of various turns and twists of my life, like I started out as uh, the classic like staff sound engineer working for a company and, um. When that gig ended, which is a nice way of saying I got fired. Um, uh, I was forced to go freelance.

I had thought about it for a while, but I was forced to go freelance. And so I had that path and I did that for a while. Um, and then circumstances changed and, uh, I eventually went to work for a church full time and like was out of the business. Like, I was just like, you know, get got outta the business completely.

And when that job ended, which is a nice way of saying I got fired, um, I, uh,

[00:08:25] Andy Leviss: I am suddenly reconsidering this episode. Hold on.

[00:08:29] Sean Walker: It's all right. I can totally relate to this career path. I worked. I got fired. I worked, I got fired. I, that's me too, bud.

[00:08:34] Brian Maddox: yeah. Um, you know, and, and I kind of fell into this like, travel freelancer thing, um, and, uh, which is its own story. And then, uh, worked that gig all the way up until I went from, you know, occasional freelancer to Perma Lancer, to full-time gig. And, um, during that full-time gig, I decided to relocate from Washington, DC to Savannah, Georgia, because the company I was working for, my, it was not location specific, so I didn't have to live any particular place.

Bought a house in December, uh, to move there in June, um, of the following year. And in April of the following year, the company I worked for went bankrupt. I was not fired to be clear. That one wasn't on. That one. Wasn't on me. Um,

[00:09:26] Andy Leviss: So he says.

[00:09:27] Brian Maddox: uh, yeah, uh, that one was not on me, but, um, but then I found myself basically starting up another freelance.

Career in a new city where I knew no one that was a relatively small market, but at a later point in my career. So it's like I've had these like three very different, um, kind of rebuild experiences. Plus I, uh, you know, I'm at a point now where, um, I, I talk to a lot of younger people and, and I, and I just kind of pay attention and there's, there are just certain like patterns when it comes to how to establish yourself as a freelancer.

There's just certain patterns I've seen over and over again to the point where I feel pretty comfortable saying, you know, if you do these, you know, A, B, and C, your chances of success will go up dramatically. Is kind of like, that's where my, my brain is. And so, you know, I, I, any, any advice or anything I give out, it's mostly, you know, based either on my own experience or just watching.

Wa you know, watch, I've been doing this for 30 years now, so I've seen a lot of folks that go from various circumstances to, to join the freelance, you know, market, labor market and, and just to kind of see the kinds of things that work and the kind of things that work short term versus the kind of things that work long term, which are very often not the same things.

[00:10:57] Andy Leviss: Right on.

[00:10:57] Sean Walker: Totally. What, what would you say are the ABCs of freelancing since you, you started down the Sesame Street Rabbit Hole?

[00:11:04] Brian Maddox: Well, since I've made copious notes and have definitely organized my notes by an exactly three point, I have, don't actually have an A, a, B, or a C, however, I, but it's funny, I, in, in a way, I kind of do. So, um. Uh, you know, one of the first things I always, I, I, it's a couple things, but I think this first one is, is universal.

No matter, um, what your, what situation you're coming from, um, number one, strategy, if you're going from, from whatever your situation is into being a freelancer, is for the first, I always say 18 months, but I'd say minimum 12 months. You say yes to everything. Every time the phone call, every time the phone rings, you say yes to the gig.

Even if it doesn't pay quite as much as you'd like, even if you know you're, you're not sure about it, even if. You basically have to, you know, for like 18, I mean, I really do think 18 months you basically, you have to go to your significant other and go, um, I may not be there for my birthday. I may not be there for my anniversary.

Um, that Christmas thing that we got planned may not happen, that vacation thing. It's just, I, I believe it's like the, the smart move is to just make the sacrifice up front and just say, for this first 18 months, I'm just gonna say yes to everything. Because the first 18 months is when the largest number of doors are going to crack open for you.

And you wanna put your foot into every single one of those cracked open doors. Now you may go through the door and find out that what's on the other end of the door isn't something that you want, and that's fine. You can always just say no the next time, but just kind of committing yourself to, man, this first 18 months, I'm just gonna go all in and I'm just gonna say yes to, to everything I can and get out there and, you know, some gigs will not go well and will be really discouraging and you'll come home and think that you never wanna do this ever for the rest of your life.

Um, some things won't be a good match with the client, you know, personality wise, some things. And, but then some will go really, really well and you'll start to build relationships with, with clients that end up turning into, into long-term relationships.

Oh, do I have to do a b and a C as well? Like immediately,

[00:13:42] Sean Walker: no, no. I was, I was just gonna chime in and

[00:13:44] Brian Maddox: on the a. Come on.

[00:13:45] Sean Walker: I was just chiming in for some feedback on the a. I think you're absolutely correct and I think, you know, having been a freelancer myself in the past and now owning a company that hires freelancers on a regular basis. That's excellent advice. And it also gives you the ability to meet all the other freelancers in your area or wherever you're going, which will then refer you to other gigs.

Like, oh man, I met Brian on this gig where what he did last week. Seems a nice guy, seemed really competent. We you need another guy, call Brian. And then all of a sudden they're like, oh yeah, so then you're the guy, they're calling all the time and as long as you are, my, my two rules are, do the best you can always and don't be a dick.

Right? If you follow those two rules, you're, you're in a real good spot for most everything in life, let alone in audio and freelancing, you know? And then you can start picking and choosing. 'cause you'll meet all the companies in town. You'll meet all the people in town. You'll go, okay, man, I like company A, B, and C, but d, e and F are not my jam.

I'll do it if I can. But they're like, the gear sucks. The people are cranky and they're not planning like they want, or, you know what I mean? You'll feel out where your wheelhouse is and you'll, you'll just settle into the sand with, with company or companies that. Are your vibe that are your jam. You know what I mean?

But you won't know that until you try 'em all and then figure it out.

[00:14:58] Andy Leviss: Well, and, and I like that, that you put the, like, the deadline on that. Like particularly, and I mean, if, if you are young and single and don't have a partner or anybody you need to answer to, that certainly makes it a lot easier. But like when you do like setting that boundary and sticking to that boundary of like the, I am, it's gonna be 18 months, it's gonna suck a little, but there is that end in sight and I'm gonna, and I mean that, that's the weird thing.

I think both with freelancing for yourself and with somebody else that is, is tricky to define, is like. Whether and how you can then set those boundaries and structures. 'cause to a certain extent, freelancing is, for the vast majority of us who do it gonna be a little unpredictable to a point. You can predict seasonal trends and that sort of thing.

So there is the managing the expectations there, but there is a degree to which you can do that. And I think having that conversation upfront is, is a very important, very important thing.

[00:15:58] Brian Maddox: Yeah. Well, and, and like I said, I, you know, uh, the, the whole 12 to 18 months thing that I, I throw out is that, is is very intentional. 'cause I feel like, oh, you know, I, I'm gonna do the, you know, I'm gonna go balls out on this for like three months or six months. Well, that's not really long enough. Like, like, you know, it's, it takes a while for the ball to get rolling.

And so you really have to, and then the other, the other aspect of that, the is I. During that same period of time, you, you need to ratchet back your spending to the absolute bare minimum amount of money you need to survive. If you are fortunate enough to start as a freelancer while still single and young, and you have an idiot buddy who will let you sleep on their floor like freaking do it, because nothing opens up opportunities and flexibility as a freelancer, more than having a little bit of money stored up in the bank.

You don't have a lot of flexibility when you first start out. You don't have a lot of choices. You, nobody knows who you are, you don't have a reputation, you know, you, you're not coming from a strong place. And so what you want to do is build up a little bit of, you know, cash reserve. So that when people do start to know who you are, when you start to make the transition to, now I wanna pick a specific route.

I want my career to go in now I wanna pick certain clients I wanna work with now I want to be able to say no to some things. Well, that's a risk unless you've got three months worth of living expenses saved up, or you've got six months of living expenses saved up. And so it's just, it's a, it's a strategy that I've, I've talked to people about and I've seen work over and over and over again.

So this is like, you know, it worked for me 20 years ago, 25 years ago, but it, it's, I still see it now. It's like, you know, everything that you can take off of your spending, you know, just be like, and it's not forever, it's not for the rest of your career, but it's just like. Shave everything off, sacrifice upfront because, and I, I say this every single fricking time, it's a marathon.

It's not a sprint. If you think long term and you just do a little bit of sacrifice upfront, you know, 12 months, 18 months, it'll feel like it's a lot longer than that while you're doing it. But generally speaking, if you follow what Sean said, and you know, work as hard as you can, be as smart as you can and don't be a dick and, you know, show up on time.

Just the basics, you know, just the basics. Show up on time, work hard. Don't be constantly asking when do we get off? Is the, when's our day gonna be over? Uh, you know, I thought this day was only gonna be eight hours. What do you mean? It's like, don't whine, you know, it's like you know

[00:19:06] Andy Leviss: What time's the food coming?

[00:19:07] Brian Maddox: Yeah. What time's the field coming?

You know, I thought we were supposed to get a break and whatever. Um. And you establish that reputation. It's like after that 18 month period, things just start opening up and you, and then you get to have choices, and then you get to say, you know, oh, okay, I don't have to say yes to that job. Or I can say yes, but I have a little wiggle room and can say, yeah, I can do that for you, but I, I, I'm gonna need, my day rate has gone up a couple hundred dollars.

And so, you know, as long as you can live with that, that's cool. I'm happy to work with you. If not, you know, that's cool too. And I appreciate you giving me a chance when you did, you know, but it gives you that. But when you first start out, you don't have any of that, and you just have to kind of acknowledge that, you know, I don't, you know, you may not, now, you know, I dunno if you're, if you're filthy rich and you just have, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank, one, why are you in this business?

Why? But, uh.

[00:20:07] Andy Leviss: For the love and the glory,

[00:20:09] Brian Maddox: The, it's the love

[00:20:09] Sean Walker: Get outta here, Andy.

[00:20:11] Brian Maddox: what, and leave show business. Um, but, but yeah, those are like, those are the two things for me that I, I, it's like it's, everybody can do it. Nobody, nobody. Most people don't want to do it. And so it's, number one is say yes to everything. And number two is cut your spending down to the absolute bare minimum that you can, because those two things will set you up no matter what your skillset, no matter how sharp you are, no matter how good you are.

Some of us are gifted to be great around people and are, are, are like, everybody loves to be around us and we gregarious and this like, it's not necessarily me, but

[00:20:52] Andy Leviss: rest are me.

[00:20:53] Brian Maddox: you know, but some people have that g some don't, you know? So we all have different, different gifting and different stuff that's gonna like help us along our career.

But those two things, if you do those two things at the front end. They set you up to then find the niche that works for you long term, and then you can build, you know, in whatever direction your career goes in, you can build in that direction and, and, and, and, and have significant amounts of success in my not so humble opinion.

[00:21:26] Sean Walker: Excellent advice, sir. Mr. Brian Maddix. I mean, that's just good. That's just good life advice, really. Like don't overspend, save some fricking money so that you have a cushion in case oh, shit happens. That's just good life advice, you know what I mean? But excellent freelance advice.

[00:21:41] Andy Leviss: and I, I did want to sort of clarify for us that what, what we're saying about like, when we're joking about like, you know, like asking when the meals are that thing we're not saying don't advocate for yourself. And we're not saying be a pushover, we're saying just don't be the whiny, super squeaky wheel.

And I will certainly, like, I, I don't know about you guys. I know I'm at a point in my career and it's a case by case basis depending on the show, depending the client. But like, I'm at a point where as a, as vaguely successful as I am and as looking and presenting the, the. Color and the, and the gender that I am, I know I can afford to be a squeaky wheel a little more than some folks, so I will sometimes take it on myself to like, I'll be the one to advocate for us if we need to, to insulate others from that too.

But it's, that's 'cause I'm a 40 something white do-do, can afford to do that. But there's also learning how to do that and, and when to do it.

[00:22:42] Brian Maddox: Well, and, and the, and, and I would say, again, going back to that first 12 to 18 months period, person. When you show up on time and you work hard and you, I don't wanna say keep your mouth shut, but keep your mouth shut and just, you know, get in there and, and grind. Keep your head down. That's a better way to put it.

Thank you. When you keep your head down, what happens very quickly is that the old farts like me and the medium farts, like Andy, um, will recognize

[00:23:16] Andy Leviss: might tell you otherwise.

[00:23:19] Brian Maddox: But basically those folks will advocate for you.

[00:23:24] Sean Walker: A hundred percent. A

[00:23:25] Brian Maddox: It's like, it's like you, you have basically, you sell yourself with your work ethic and your attitude and your hustle to the people who have the leverage to then squeak for you.

And I, I make it a definite habit of doing exactly that. When I'm on a job site, most of the time I'm one of the more experienced people on the, the gig. Most of the time I know most everybody on the gig very well. I have longstanding relationships with everybody. I'm the one who can go to whoever it is that's the decision maker in charge and go, Hey, we're coming up on, on lunch, or, Hey, we're coming up on this, or, Hey, I think we've got, or can you give me a, like, I can do all of that stuff for you.

And you know, it's like you hustle for me and I'm happy to be the one to. To, you know, it take the hit if somebody's gonna be annoyed, because I, I've been doing this long enough that it's, it's not going to hurt my reputation. I have 30 years of reputation. I can, I can kind of be really, really, really, really squeaky for two or three gigs and no one's gonna care.

So it's, it's, uh, it's,

[00:24:45] Sean Walker: Yeah. And it, it's also about how you present it, right? Like if you go, Brian, if you go to the, the, you know, whoever the crew lead is or the person in charge, like you said, and say, Hey man, crew looks like they're kind of fading. We've been here five plus hours. Like, what, what's our plan for lunch? It's very different than like, when you I getting lunch.

You know what I mean? Like it's, it's looking out for the team rather than just like whining about yourself comes across very different to the, the people. And then you're like, oh man, what a pro. He is looking out for the team rather than what a winery, he is just whining about fricking lunch. We got stuff to do today.

You know what I mean?

[00:25:15] Brian Maddox: Well, and one of the things that, um, that by getting yourself out there and getting yourself in as many rooms as you possibly can. But keeping your head down is you start to understand by watching others that have been doing this longer, how to find what that line is

[00:25:35] Sean Walker: Totally

[00:25:36] Brian Maddox: there's, there's no, there's no, like, we could sit here for the next 17 hours trying to give you a list of, well, in this case you could do this, but in this case you could do this, but in this, but that's just doesn't, that's not how it works.

[00:25:48] Sean Walker: use your common sense.

[00:25:49] Brian Maddox: but the, the, the longer that you're in the rooms with people, the longer that you're in different situations because we all know that different situations and different, even different cities and different venues and different on and on, everything's got a little bit of a different vibe to it. In some situations, you can get away with, with, you know, more pushback and some you really can't and on and on and on.

The more that you just are getting in as many rooms as possible, keeping your head down. Paying attention to everything that you can, all the dynamics between the different departments and the different individuals and the people that have been there for a while and how they're dealing with certain circumstances, certain situations, it's like that's where, that's where the learning comes in, which is the other side of that whole 18 months that I keep talking about.

It's like that puts you in as many different rooms, as many different situations, as many different kinds of crews, different roles. You might be hired on as the, as the monitor tech, and then be hired on as the patch tech, and then be hired on as the fly tech, and then be hired on as the A one for a corporate.

Then be hired on just as a stage hand, and then be hired on. I could go on and on and on. All the different kinds of roles like. You're in a, an arena pushing boxes, and then the next day you're running a breakout room in a hotel and on and on and on, and you learn how to handle yourself in all these different situations.

And you also start to learn like, you know, what, what, what your values are and what you value is not the right word, but like what it is that you really want to do. Like, I, I don't want to be in arenas ever for the rest of my career. I just, I don't wanna do that. But I'm almost 60 years old. Like, I just look at an arena and I, I don't think, oh, cool, awesome crowd.

Huge pa, this is gonna be great. I think my knees hurt, like just looking at the fricking room, my, my knees already. My knees already hurt and I just like, this is just going to be a pain, but. You know, it's like, you know, I, I spent a lot of time in arenas and I spent a lot of time in, you know, hotel kitchens and I spent a lot of time.

It's, and I spent a lot of time in a lot of different situations, and it's like, I've now been able to pick and choose, you know, this is the direction, this is the things I want to do.

[00:28:23] Sean Walker: Totally, dude. Well said.

[00:28:26] Andy Leviss: So we, we talked a little bit last week, which I know Brian did. I hasn't necessarily listened to, but Sean and I talked a little bit about

[00:28:34] Brian Maddox: I listened, I listened so closely to every word I, I, I could repeat 'em back to you. That's how closely I listened to

[00:28:43] Andy Leviss: he is like, not, not in the same order, but I can pretty much repeat every word at some po It's like page one of the dictionary.

[00:28:50] Brian Maddox: Yes.

[00:28:51] Andy Leviss: Uh, no, but like we talked a little bit from like Sean's perspective as the business owner hiring freelancers about like his thoughts on how to call up and pitch yourself to a new company.

And I'm wondering, like, Brian, in your experience, maybe do you want to talk a little bit about what you've found works or doesn't work from the freelancer side of that?

[00:29:12] Brian Maddox: Uh, my, my situation has been, and so I'm, it might, this might be one of those where it's might be a little bit better for, for folks who are literally in a, like, cold call situation, you know, where they literally don't know anyone. Um, I may not be the, the, the best one to, to, to give advice on that because first time I became a freelancer, I had already been in town for seven years as one of the, like I was the chief sound engineer for a ma for the, one of the main sound companies in town.

And so lots and lots of people knew my name. I always say that the first time I went freelance, 'cause it's a hundred percent true. The first time I went to freelance, I took one day and I went through every single. Company in town that did anything to do with production. And I just called them all up and said, hi, I'm a freelancer now.

And I hung up the phone and I've never made a phone call since. And that's a a hundred percent true. Um, that said, I will tell a little story because maybe this will be of some usefulness to somebody who's in a, you know, completely cold call situation. Maybe they just graduated from school and they don't know anybody in town or this or that, or whatever.

When I first wanted to get involved in the business, um. Back in the ancient days before Googles and, and all that other stuff, it's like I had been working a regular job and I was like, no, I wanna do something to do with sound or music or something. And um, I literally cracked open the yellow pages, the Google of my time and, um, I.

And I found everything that had anything to do remotely with sound, like anything that was even adjacent by four degrees of separation. And I made up a, a funny little cover letter that was basically, you know, that showed a little bit of a humorous side. I was kind of like, you know, I, I've, I've worked with, you know, brand X, brand y, brand Z band, brand Z and D and I've managed to blow them all up and made smoke come out of all of them.

But now I've learned how to not do that. So now I can, you know, work with you to not make your sound gear turn into smoke machines. Um, feel free to call me Brian. Something along those lines. Just something to make, set myself out from the crowd a little bit. And I sent my pathetic tiny little resume, which had almost nothing on it, um, to everyone I.

And I got two or three calls back because it stuck out a little bit. People were like, who is, who is this guy with his oddball approach? So I, you know, apply that in whatever way that you will. I still think that ultimately every door that you can get your, your, your foot in, it's like, if you're starting from nothing, you know, call up the local stage, hand, uh, broker, the local stage, hand union, the, the, you know, uh, talk to the theaters in town, talk to the, the high schools in town, talk to anybody and just say, you know, what can I do to get myself in the, in the building?

Um. Once you've done that, I, I, it's, I, I feel like your reputation is the thing that markets you, um, and, and the consistency of your reputation. Uh, I, I was having this conversation with somebody recently. Um, she was, um, uh, talking to me about how she was working on a gig and, uh, relatively new freelancer and how, uh, there was a, you know, old kind of curmudgeonly, um, uh, a one that was being kind of condescending and, and not easy to work with.

And, and the thing that I told her, which was, um, you know, the way that I encouraged her was I said, uh, you, you know what, whatever that person's issue was, that's, that's a them problem, but the way that you respond to being treated poorly. It's how you sell yourself to every single other person on the job.

It's like, you know, no, you do not wanna allow yourself to be completely run over by someone and abused. That's never acceptable. You never, you're not a doormat. You should never be treated like one or allow yourself to be treated like one. But if you can respond to being condescended to with grace and professionalism and get the job done, and as much as possible, not take it personally and basically be the bigger person, everyone else on the gig will notice.

Because,

[00:34:05] Sean Walker: A hundred percent.

[00:34:06] Brian Maddox: because that's not something that's easy for us as humans to do. And when I see a younger tech on a gig rise above. Being condescended to, or difficult situation or even just a difficult text situation or a tight times or, or when I see them rise above something, I don't care if they're lighting or video or scenic or carpentry.

I don't care what it is that they're doing. I notice that and then the next time somebody asks me, Hey, do you know somebody who could blank? That name pops into my head because I'm like, this person could keep their head in a situation that was unfair to them, that sucked for them, that wasn't their fault, and they still kept, kept their head and they still stayed on as a professional.

And that's, that's, that's the biggest marketing tool for, to that I can think of is, you know, you're marketing yourself to everyone on a job site. That's around you, whether they're in your department or not. Whether they are, whether you know it or not. You, everyone's, everyone's paying attention to everything.

[00:35:28] Sean Walker: So for goodness sake, take a shower and brush your teeth.

[00:35:32] Brian Maddox: Yeah. Also helpful.

[00:35:35] Andy Leviss: Oh yeah, tho, those can't be understated.

[00:35:40] Sean Walker: Dude, I cannot tell you how many times in large breakout situations I'm like, yo, man, like soap and water. Like what are you, what is happening right now? Dude, like the basics of big adult. Step one to being an excellent freelancer. Learn to adult, then learn to freelance.

[00:36:01] Brian Maddox: Well, and so and so, you know, as a baseline, depending on what it is you want to get into, you know, we all have to have a certain level of technical proficiency, but I've seen, I've seen folks be extremely effective and have very, very effective careers who, you know, recognized early on. I have, I have one friend that always pops into my head that when I first started with him in our twenties, he figured out that he did not have an ear to mix.

He just was like, he's like, I, he did it a few times and he was like, you know what? I'm not good at this and I'm never gonna be good at this. And so he turned his attention to being a system tech and an A two and an RF tech and a comms tech and to, and, and to a, a level of professionalism and a level of perfection at doing everything that he's does.

And he's still, you know, working extremely big shows for very good money here 30 years later and never comes anywhere close to touching a mixing console. Because he figured out a long time ago that that wasn't his, wasn't his gig.

[00:37:15] Sean Walker: The Andy Levi story by Sir Mr. Brian Maddox.

[00:37:21] Andy Leviss: See, and this is how I get pigeonholed as not a mixer.

[00:37:26] Brian Maddox: Yeah. And, and for the record, Andy was definitely not who I was talking about.

[00:37:30] Sean Walker: No, totally. I was just busting Andy's chops.

[00:37:33] Andy Leviss: Well, you know, that's a, that's one of the, one of the things we sort of alluded to at the top that I wanted to get into, and that a thing that branches off at are the, um, I've lost track of half that thought. Wow. Um, uh, is, but like the finding the gigs and figuring out what that, finding the gigs and figuring out the ones you like don't necessarily want to take are the ones you do and how to handle that.

[00:38:04] Brian Maddox: Yeah. Well, and there's two different things. One of them is, um, there's the things I wanna do versus the things I don't wanna do, and then there's the things that I'm good at versus the things that I'm not good at. And those do not always align. I think that's one of the, one of the big, like, you know, myths of humanity is that we just assume that the things that we dig are the things that we're gonna be good at.

And that's, that's not necessarily true. Um, so you have to, yeah, it's part of, part of the experiment of getting out there and doing as many different kinds of things as possible is that hopefully you can get a handle on, I really dig this kind of stuff and I really like it, but ma'am, I'm clearly, I find it's, I find this other area so much easier to do now.

It doesn't mean that you can't pursue what it is that you love and just maybe not work at as high a level ultimately because you don't have, uh, just as much of the natural talent skillset. That's a you decision. Like, like plenty of people do that, you know, plenty. There's, there's plenty of people, and I'm not picking on them in any way, shape or form.

There's plenty of people who mix in bars for their entire career because they're not arena level mix engineers, but they love to mix bands and that's all they want to do. And they're, that's a decision they've made and they, that's what they wanna do. And I respect that. That's fine. Um,

[00:39:38] Sean Walker: Or they don't want to be away from home a bunch, right? Like if you're gonna mix bands in an arena, you are not at home.

[00:39:43] Brian Maddox: exactly. Um, and you know, in fact, one of the things that, um, I, uh, have talked about before. All I wanted to do when I first got into, into doing Sound was to be a touring, touring a one for somebody you've heard of. Like, that's all I ever wanted to do. I was working for a local sound company, you know, I was, you know, system teching for all these guys who would come in and completely ruin the sound coming out of my, my, my pa with their terrible, awful mixes, which pissed me off and it's like, I could do better than that, et cetera, et cetera.

And, you know, I came very close to getting two or three very big tours that would've probably launched me in that direction. Um, you know, I missed, uh, um, doing a Dylan tour by like five minutes because I just didn't call back in time. Um, which would've launched me into a completely different, um, situation, but.

I can look back now and go 29, 30-year-old. Brian was not in a mental health place where he had any business. Being on a bus with a bunch of alcoholics running across the country, like I may very well have not survived that, like that

[00:41:01] Sean Walker: A hundred percent.

[00:41:02] Brian Maddox: the place for me. I wanted to do it, but I can look back now and I was disappointed when it didn't happen.

But I can look back now and go, the best thing that could have happened for me was for that to not. Happen. You know, I got to, I got to mix plenty of music. I got to mix plenty of cool music acts, you know, locally as the local, you know, sound guy. And, you know, and I enjoyed all of that. Um, but I never did, I never went on tour with a band.

I never, you know, went across the country in a bust or even a band tour, whatever. I never did any of that, that kind of stuff. And in hindsight, it's far better, far better for me that I didn't, 'cause I just, you know, I just wasn't personally in a place where that would've been even remotely healthy for me.

[00:41:54] Sean Walker: Dude, same. I got fired from both the tours I went on for a drinking too much. You can't, you know what I mean? Like. I'm not a rock star. I can't drink like a rock star on tour, which I did, and that was not smart. I fucked up. You know what I mean? And you, you live and learn, right? It's just, it's part of, like you said, hindsight when you look back and go, man, that is not, uh, that's, that's not for me.

Or that wasn't a smart choice. You know what, I, I can look back. Same as you were just saying, and go, now I could tackle those challenges then I was not prepared for those challenges. But now I don't want those challenges and I'm not in a place to do it because I'm, I don't wanna leave my wife and kids. I don't wanna be gone that much.

[00:42:30] Brian Maddox: Right.

[00:42:32] Andy Leviss: And, and that's, that's a big thing. The, it's not only what you do and how you do, but when you fuck up, how do you cop do it and how do you recover is what can help build a career as well. I think.

[00:42:44] Brian Maddox: Oh, I, I mean, it's, I mean, we could talk at this, that's, that's 17 podcasts right there. Like, it's because there's, there's so many levels to that. Um.

[00:42:57] Sean Walker: the, we need the content. Brian, come on. 17 episodes. Let's do.

[00:43:00] Andy Leviss: You know, kidding aside, we have a lot left to hit, so...why don't we pause it here for this epiode, and let's come back for part two on the next one! 

Um, at which point, in the meantime, thanks to Allen & Heath and RCF for sponsoring us, and thanks to you all at home for listening, and...that's the pod!

Music: “Break Free” by Mike Green